Election 2019

Westminster’s voting system is bankrupt. It’s time for proportional representation

www.electoral-reform.org.uk/westminsters-voting-system-is-bankrupt-its-time-for-proportional-representation/

Jura2 - how can this be? Has she phoned the Council's Electoral Registration Office? It sounds very irregular to me. Maybe she hasn't registered herself at her Halls of Residence. If she isn't on the Register, then she can't vote. Is it that she is only registered at her parents' address?

Disappointed to find this morning that I had a choice of only three candidates: Con, Lab and Lib/Dem. Then I realised that with the current leaders of these three, any vote would be for the Monster Raving Loony Party anyway.

DD and SIL have voted in the hope Raab will be Portilloed.

A friend just told me that her daughter who is a student near Bristol- is not allowed to vote in the Constituency where she is resident in Halls of Residence- where the Tories have a tiny majority- but has to vote in another Constituency where she is NOT resident, and where the Tories have a massive majority. She is absolutely furious- so so wrong.

Raab is quite high up my list of favourites to star in a "Portillo moment" in the wee small hours.

Jura2, don't these politicians know how an election works??? Rabb is making a fool of himself, no way has he seen who has voted for him. As his/her reputation is on the line, if I were the Returning Officer for Rabb's constituency, I would want to go on record saying this could never happen.

My DH did not receive his postal vote so cannot vote. He is very cross, quite rightly.

I suspect that more older people have postal votes.

No votes should be available for anyone until after the 10.00pm deadline. Corruption seems rife

Raab boasting now on TV that postal votes are in his favour - how wrong is that postal votes must not be seen by anyone until 10pm, and must be kept side down

Update to my post of last night. Everything I have put there is correct except I have been informed that they do open the envelope with the voting paper and put it face down as CurlyWhirly indicated. The agents for each candidate can be present to ensure fair play. The votes are then sealed in another polling box to be counted on the night. Perhaps they are also allowed to take a sample of, let's say, 1 in every 50 which would indicate way seat is going. No information is supposed to leave the room as this could influence the election. I am disappointed in LK and I think she should be brought to book for it. On the whole I am unhappy with way the media has seized on minor stories and made them the issue of the day rather than the real meat of the policies, stance and truth of each party's message.

These trite memes on Fb are so infuriating

They almost make me not want to go and vote at all

But I've done the deed

Written by someone who is yet to grow up.

I would just like to leave this here.

Well Thursday morning the day of the election which has been the dirtiest and most corrupt ever.

The U.K. can no longer hold up its head proudly and claim to be a bastion of democracy and incorruptibility because it isn’t.

Thanks for that Devorgilla - the process for making a Postal Vote has changed since I was involved, and, to prevent fraud, is now a more elaborate process. And yes MaizieD, I agree with your assumption. I would say it is either propaganda by the Tories or Election staff have seriously broken their Declaration of Secrecy (highly unlikely, would think that would be grounds for dismissal and a criminal offence!).

That's all really interesting, curlywhirly and Devorgilla. Thanks.

So we have two possibilities now?
1) that all concerned are telling lies to demoralise Labour voters (which a top BBC journalist should definitely not be complicit in)
2) there's been some corrupt practices in some constituencies

When you vote by post as I did this election you indicate the candidate you want with the usual X on one form. This is placed in an envelope you seal. This envelope has a flap attached which you have to sign and fill in a few other bits to allow cross checking that you are the entitled voter. Then you put the whole lot in another envelope which you seal and post. The envelope with the returning officer’s address can be opened in advance of Election Day to remove the signed flap which does identify the voter. The envelope which has the actual ballot paper is only opened in election night. The signed flaps are kept in case of allegations of postal fraud when your signature is checked against the form you submitted to receive a postal voting form. They are allowed to count the envelopes to get an idea of % of electorate who have already voted as this can indicate a high or low turnout.

I have just read the Laura Kuensberg quote - I really don't think Election staff would let any Candidate or their staff look at the face of a Ballot Paper, it just wouldn't happen. The only way a Candidate could possibly determine how the voting had gone, is to be present at each day's opening, (sorry, but I don't know whether they are even allowed to do this) and try to see where each cross has been placed, by looking at the back of the Ballot paper (if someone has really pressed down with the pencil, then there may be an indent on the paper). Not an easy thing to do, I am sure you will agree. It leaves me to think, that maybe it is just wishful thinking, or a large dose of fake news!

MaizieD - I would say they are talking through their hat! No way would we have taken note of what votes had been cast. It is only at the Count, that scrutineers (which are usually Candidates, Councillors, Election Agents etc) get the chance to see how the voting has gone, they watch you counting (with Ballot Papers face up) with eagle eyes, trying to see who has the most votes. It's quite easy to predict how things are going, as each bundle of 50 (or 100) votes for a particular party are put in coloured bands. They can then easily see how things are going to turn out.

Thank you for clarifying this Curlywhirly- makes total sense.

So Laura's comment is of real concern that this is not being applied in some cases. As for Matt Hancock being aware of how Postal Voters have voted in his Constituency- this is just appalling and should be investigated properly by the Electoral Commission.

Just to clarify, it is only at the Count, that the Ballot Papers are turned face up, so the actual votes for each party can be counted.
So at no time before the Count should anybody, not even Election staff, see how people have voted.

Thank you for this thread.

So, in the light of your experience, what do you think about the lawyer on twitter who says that everyone's been peeking at postal ballots for years and it's not illegal, curlywhirly? I must say, it shocked me...

The Electoral Commission 's own flowchart states that when the Postal Votes are received they should be opened and should be placed face down so no one can see the result, then put in a Ballot Box, which should be sealed after each addition of Ballot Papers. I worked in Local Government for years, and have worked on numerous Elections and Counts. The Postal Vote Ballot Box is opened at the start of the Count, and only then are the Ballot Papers counted, face up.

If these stories are true (and we all know about fake news) then it's a failing of the Returning Officer rather than the candidates. He/she should be accountable.