What now for Labour Party ?

But disagree with Annie re the press barons. Not having an ‘office at Tory HQ’ is irrelevant inasmuch as their influence is out there on the streets, on the TV and on social media.

A much stronger lobby.

IMO opinion it was and still is the power of Len McCluskey to influence the leadership of the LP (since he backed Ed against his brother) that has led to all the subsequent defeats.

He is their éminence grise’

Dianahmo I am against unions and press barons holding power over an elected government but the right wing press owners do not have offices in Tory HQ, they print in support
of the Tory party but do not control the Tory party as the unions control the Labour Party.

My OH watched a news item yesterday which included an interview with 3 middle aged men living in bedsits in Bolton. He said how depressing Bolton looked - rubbish, boarded up shops etc etc. The men were on zero hours contracts. When asked how they'd voted the answer was Boris - because "he'll do alright by us"

Fennel no, you have never insulted me , thank you

Dianahmo, I wish there was a salute emoji! Exactly.

After all folks, we didn't know what we were voting for with this last one, did we?

Are you really an adult or have we been invaded because of the school holidays?

Anniebach you are against unions holding power over an elected government. Are you also against the press barons holding power over an elected government?

absthame, while I totally disagree with your description of the LP, I DO agree with the need for new, young blood.

Time for the old guard to move over.

I agree with Fennel. The North and Midlands went Blue because they voted Leave and the Tories look set to implement their wishes. It's that simple.

M0nica firstly of course there were stories in the papers but were they repeatedly made headlines? Were they repeatedly mentioned in any news broadcast. Was he repeatedly refered to as "a liar" (which he was) or was the story simply printed nd then moved on from. The whole point of propaganda is that it isn't any use saying something once you have to keep repeating the allegation.
But I accept that many fail to recognise how the news has been hi-jacked and don't find it at all worrying.
Another thing that they probably don't worry about (and I do) is the increase in Islamaphobia in our society and the fact that this seems to have become the acceptable face of racism, one prevelant in the Tory party but largely ignored, possibly because it does link in to the fears of some communities.

Having seen Corbyn for all of his union and political life, I always saw him as self obsessed and as a publicity seeker. Most have seen him as a man of principle I did not and do not so I was not surprised that in this election he was found out.

I cannot forgive the idiots that allowed this fraud who encouraged the antisemites in the party I have been involved with for 60years.

I cannot forgive them for enabling what could well be another two terms of conservative governments that will take even more from the Have nots and give even more to those that have. All this while they cry crocodile tears.

They make me sick, with their mock socialism; socialism which is about taking care of others not about demanding a purity of policy, taking care involves getting dirty not washing hands as a reaction to need.

The Labour Party is no longer a democratic socialist party, it is now, and has been for some years, a vehicle for flattering some shabby old folks who in previous times were never trusted.

JenniferEccles Tue 17-Dec-19 09:23:43
My theory is the missing left wing voters are busy campaigning for a second general election !

After all folks, we didn't know what we were voting for with this last one, did we?

Still continuing with the silly and childish poking and prodding? Will you keep this up for the full 5 years or is it possible you'll bore of it at some point?

Well I'm a red 'nastie', but I've never insulted Annie. I hope she agrees?
My view is that the LP lost, especially in the North, because Brexit was the main issue. And they mostly voted to leave.
otoh no-one has given a clear explanation of that.

Trisher, all the info about Johnson was in the public media. I read articles from his first employer about his making up stories to file with the Spectator because he was too lazy ( or up to other things) to research articles. For every anti Corbyn article there was an anti-Johnson one, he came out as just as unpleasant and untrustworthy as Corbyn.

The choice in this last election, as far as the leaders were concerned, will be seen in history as having to choose between the two most despicable men who have ever fronted the two great parties and you had to hold your nose very tight to vote for either.

In the end, the electorate as a whole, including a lot of traditional labour voters decided that Johnson was the lesser of the two evils and voted for him.

There is nothing more ludicrous than a party that lost, not by a whisker, but by a landslide claiming that its policies, ie the manifesto, was very popular with voters and their leader was also popular on the doorstop. If that was the case why didn't you win?

The Labour party has been very active since blaming the media and Brexit for its problem. The one phrase I didn't hear was that they had been talking to the voters, especially those who used to vote Labour, and asking them what the problem was. It is possibly that they have and they do not like what they have heard,, or rather it doesn't match their own story, so they are ignoring it.

Annie
Take no notice of the red nasties on here, who insult you,

You were right about Corbyn and the fate of the LP in the hands of such a terrible outdated and unwanted left wing agenda.

The truth hurts for some people.

I gave my thoughts about the election result on the thread that has now been removed.
I will admit that it made me feel very sad. I had seen the possibility of our country owning our own utilities again, and us all benefitting from that instead of foreign governments and shareholders.
I had thought we would see the end of the bedroom tax and the five week delay in Universal Credit payments which is causing so much misery.
Therec were other things as well but I wouldn't want to "virtue signal". If that makes me a "loudmouth" then so be it.

trisher those who voted Tory did so because of the press and the BBC ?

Not true. You are still refusing to accept people didn’t trust Corbyn. You say I have made it obvious I dislike Corbyn, yes I have but not from the start of his leadership.

Corbyn supporters have dismissed me as a secret Tory, claimed I hated Corbyn which I do not. Denied what is true.

Anyone who criticised Corbyn was dismissed as a secret Tory.

You didn’t want to listen to genuine concerns and fears.

My fears were for the Labour Party and the results of the election prove my fears were justified. I said we would have a repeat of 1983, we did.

I have been accused of being against unions, not true, I am against unions holding power over an elected government.

Core principles!!!!!
What is the use of principles if you cannot implement them.
Labour needs to get real.

Let's put it like this Annie If theMSM had spent the last two years highlighting all the mistakes, dodgy deals and outright lies that Boris has been involved in during his political career do you imagine there would have been the same support for him? Even his promise to deliver Brexit would have been questioned. Some of his 'mistakes' made brief headlines but slipped rapidly into the background. I can understand anyone disliking Corbyn and you have made that obvious, but to dismiss the MSM bias so glibly is indeed a threat to democracy.
As for why many of us aren't commenting. It's probably because we are considering what can be done and what the future holds with any socialist leader or party unlikely to be electable in the current media situation. The result of this may be two similar parties occupying roughly the same ground and an electorate which once again don't bother to vote.

Nothing has changed. Corbyn lost the election, so many labour MP’s have said when they were canvassing it was Corbyn that voters had a problem with.

But Corbyn supporters here are blaming the press and the BBC .

I might add that I know nothing about your religious beliefs.

It doesn't stop her insulting people's religious beliefs though.

GGMK3, what on earth are you talking about. All I did was describe Jeremy Corbyn's closest followers as disciples, what on earth is insulting about that. It is a term frequently used to describe the most devoted followers of all kinds of leaders and movements.

Cambridge Dictionary
a person who believes in the ideas and principles of someone famous and tries to live the way that person does or did:

an ardent disciple of Gandhi

I rest my case.

It has to be faced that it was Brexit that was the dominant factor in this election. The Labour Party having a large section of its supporters in the North of England being leave adherents and another large section in the south being remain in their views the situation was never going to be bridgable. That is the main reason the Labour Party lost badly in the North of England.

However, without doubt, the name of Jeremy Corbyn was also toxic to many traditional Labour voters and that was brought forward by the continuous undermining of Corbyn by many within the right-wing of the party as it was by the unprecedented media onslaught against him. In that had all the Parliamentary Labour Party amassed one hundred percent behind Jeremy Corbyn following his two overwhelming Leadership election victories then I feel his name may well have been far more acceptable to many "on the doorstep".

The above continuing situation within the Parliamentary Labour Party makes that sector of the broader Labour Movement totally unfit for purpose, and that is a situation that only the trades unions within the broader movement can " sort out"

Within those trades unions whose affiliated membership pay the bills of the Parliamentary Labour Party and provide much of the infrastructure etc for the Constituency Parties to operate there are moves already now begun to indeed "sort out" the foregoing situation, but that will take time, possibly as much as six months.

So, all I feel will have to wait on what will be crucial decisions for the future Labour Party and the whole labour movement.

However, I believe the majority of active members within the Labour movement will wish to see a Labour Party that retains allegiance to its core principles and does not once again sell its Soul to the bankers, wealthy non-doms and the likes of Rupert Murdoch for the sake of unprincipled electoral gain.

Blimey what on earth is to be gained by trading insults with people we don't know?