What now for Labour Party ?

Corbyn didn't lie. This is his quote in full:

'We resent this waste of unemployed men who are being sent to the Falklands to die for Thatcher and Galtieri. The Foreign Office has been doing deals with the junta for years. A tide of jingoism is sweeping the country. Already £1.5 billion has been spent on this invasion. It is a nauseating waste of money and lives.
'We are spending all this at a time when we can’t find money for houses, hospitals or wages, not for world hunger, not for aid to north-east Africa. Yet they can commandeer ships like there’s no tomorrow, and send people to die in the south Atlantic.
'The whole thing is a Tory plot to keep their money-making friends in business.'

An article from 1999 claiming that the unemployed were encouraged to join the army:

www.independent.co.uk/news/jobless-youngsters-are-told-to-join-the-army-1105612.html

One of the things that chokes in my gullet is the way those to the left treat the average voter as if they were fools while they are enlightened.Effectively treating the people they say they wish to represent as the lumpenprolerariat, a wonderful Marxist word, for all the stupid people who won't or don't vote for them.

They, the enlightened, understand all the subtly of fake news, bias in the media etc,but the average voter cannot understand this and it is for this reason they voted Conservative because they were fooled by every thing they see in the media.

I find this attitude arrogant and insulting to all those people who, saw the media, judged it, looked at their lives and the lives of the people round them and made their decision.

No one who has habitually supported one party, changes side without much thought and consideration. Before Labour can recover, it has got to learn to respect its voters.

@gletherby

Listen to the man in the video here. If only we had had the chance of having someone like this as Prime Minister. . .

#TheDirtyWarOnTheNHS
#CorbynWasRight
#TheDirtyWarOnTheNHS .
2001: When Blair expanded PFI, all major parties agreed with it but we had a voice on our side.

This is the real reason he is vilified by the unscrupulous.

No-one is fit to lead our party who would support New Labour's Thatcherism.

twitter.com/Fanxxxxtastic/status/1207206291661344768?s=20

Thank goodness the traditional Labour supporters saw right through Comrades Corbyn and McDonnell. Some may go back to supporting Labour but I think many will continue to vote Conservative as long as the new government see Brexit through and address the concerns of those Northern areas.
If they can manage to do that, why would they ever vote Labour again?
The LP still don’t seem to understand the enormity of what has just happened, and some members ( according to the ones who post on GN) don’t get it either.It must be the fault of the voters!

Voters will soon see through Johnson he is a proven liar and talks now to bring in insurance to pay for care and bring in America to help run Our NHS

Let's see what happens

More former Labour Party voters actually deserted the party to vote LibDem or another party (including the SNP) than those who jumped ship to vote Conservative.

The mood of the country is, I suspect, more fragile than those gloating over the Conservative victory realise.

Above all, we need politicians who listen.

MOnica, as unfortunate as it sounds, people that make a decision about who to vote for because 'He was shifty' or 'Get Brexit done' are lumpen!

I agree, they need to be appealed to, but there are plenty on here trotting out sound bites fed to them by their party RATHER than actually making informed comments. I actually had a Tory supporter tell me the Tories would make Britain Great again. No addressing of what they'd been doing for the last 10 years.

Obviously, a party CAN'T get elected without appealing to them. And same party should NOT refer to them in an insulting way. But to imply that THAT demographic are well read and informed is denial of the reality.

Case in point. I once dated a Labour member, SOLID fan of the party (pre-Corbyn). He followed the party line in his beliefs. NOT because he necessarily always believed them, but because the party told him to. I thought this was ridiculous and told him so. Any adult should read up on the issues that are important to them. Not make knee jerk reactions based on The Daily Heil or what the illustrious leader proclaims. And if these same adults DON'T have informed opinions, then they are lumpen.

One of the GREAT things to have come out of this debacle is that the young have become more politicised. Not enough to sway the vote, but many more than would usually vote. That has to be a good thing. They're looking at our leaders, their policies, their record and making choices. THINKING.

No one who fought in The Falklands was unemployed , fact .

Doctor Fred
@londonfredd

I am close to tears watching #TheDirtyWarOnTheNHS. It is now clear to me how much of a threat
@jeremycorbyn
was to these guys. He was going to stop this sale that has been deliberately happening slowly since Thatcher and Tony Blair then Cameron and the LibDems progressed.

Jeremy Corbyn was against PFI. Corbyn pledged to kick out the profiteers that were let in by the neoliberals. So depressing people voted for the continuation of #TheDirtyWarOnTheNHS.
Not sure people even realise what's going on.

Prof Damien Ridge
@damienridge

Terrifying - Pilger is only saying what we in the health sector know, but with horrifying clarity: despite nice words about the NHS, all government actions are taking us ever closer to a damaging US style ‘profit before people’ model, #TheDirtyWarOnTheNHS

Gagajo How very very elitist you appear. Not everyone can be eloquent and put their thoughts in words properly when faced by an arrogant lefty who thinks themselves so superior to the working masses.

When someone changes their vote from one party to another, they generally think very carefully about it.

Elitist my backside.

Everyone, or most people, have the ability to think, to read. Those that don't are making a choice.

The end of them, hopefully!

Anniebach They weren't unemployed when they were in the army - that's true.

However, my understanding of what Corbyn actually said was that the army deliberately targets the unemployed to sign up, then treats them abysmally.

It is a fact that veterans are over-represented in prisons and as homeless - and I'm not blaming the veterans for that. Some of them find it very difficult to adjust to civvy life, especially if they've been injured, and don't get the support they need.

You appear to think there's a stigma attached to being unemployed.

growstuff We are a Forces family, there is an awful lot of support for personnel when they leave whether that be from injury or end of their service.

Some however choose to do their own thing, it is impossible to give a person support if they refuse it.

I am not denying that some ex-serviceman end up in prison or on the streets, but so do people who have never been in the Forces.

The Forces are a good career choice for anyone, whether you want to further your education or learn a trade.

GrannyGravy13 it is impossible to give a person support if they refuse it.
Perhaps some people might be more prepared to accept help if the person or organisation offering it had no links to the system which caused them harm and damage in the first place. It seems you are quite happy to allow some to suffer because they are not "Forces family"

Grandad

Thank you for your reply.

' The problem with the above has become that during the Blair era many Labour election candidates were selected by the Parliamentary Labour Party central office which never had any connection or roots in the wider movement. Many of those persons are still there which has brought about in the present time the continuous battle between the left and right factions within the Parliamentary Party which I feel is irreconcilable and has made the Palimentery Party totally unfit for purpose.'
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I too see a continued battle between the left/right factions in the party as there is a mirror image e.g to a left of party Labour supporter the Parliamentary Labour Party' lost touch ' to a centre /right Labour supporter the NEC/Momentum /Leadership ' lost touch'.

It is now a fact the disastrous loss of Labour Constituencies proves distinctly that the casm between the Labour Membership/Momentum /Corbyn and the wider Labour voter base shows who they thought had indeed ' lost touch'. Hence finally the question asked years ago when Corbyn/Momentum took over the Labour Party ' Could Labour Split' looks more highly likely than not , I think on that we are in agreement.
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" The above is why I and my wife will both be voting at the extraordinary meeting of our Unite Union Branch on Thursday evening for that organisation to "pull the plug" on the more than one hundred years plus close relationship with the Parliamentary Labour Party should such a motion or resolution be placed before the assembly. "
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If as you suspect there will indeed be ' the plug pulled' between the Unions and the Parliamentary Labour Party one side will have to presumably no longer be called THE LABOUR PARTY, surely both factions cannot have the same political name. Perhaps as the funding /support will be stripped away from the Parliamentary Labour Party a good name would be the Unionist, and Momentum Party.
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The Labour Party is the Unions party. Unions represent the workers ie the Labour force. If you can't see that link then you are failing to understand. Whatever the other party wants to call itself if it breaks from the Unions it will need to find funding- Good luck with that!

Granny Gravy

" It seems you are quite happy to allow some to suffer because they are not "Forces family"
----

I would like to personally say to you ' Don' t play the game '!
Your post did not deserve that level of attack or abuse.

trisher

"Whatever the other party wants to call itself if it breaks from the Unions it will need to find funding- Good luck with that!"
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It will be the Unions breaking away from the Parliamentary Labour Party!

GagaJo ever considered that some people's lives are under so many demands they don't have the hours you apparently have available for political digest? But I do agree post after post from one contributor of just copied and pasted tweets displays a lack of any individual thought. To quote you but there are plenty on here trotting out sound bites fed to them by their party RATHER than actually making informed comments.

It's been tried POGS- Chuka Umunna remember. It didn't work. How many Labour MPs do you see following down that road. The PLP is funded by the Unions. It won't survive without them and it can't keep the name The Labour Party is funded by the Unions and controlled by its members.

trisher

We will have to wait and see.

I think the possibility of a ' split' has now sunk in to many and those who thought this was a possibility when Jeremy for Leader/Momentum became a ' party within a party' might possibly be proved correct.

One thing is for sure the Labour Party as it was known as a Broad Church can only continue to be so if the party does indeed ' split' or there is one hell of a ' coming together' by both factions.

People have long memories and the voting public has obviously been following the machinations in Labour since Corbyn/Momentum took over the party and we now know what their opinion was because they spoke in volumes what they thought by December the 13th.

POGS, in regard to your post @10:50 today, it is wonderful during this season of goodwill to all men/women that us two who are on completely different sides of the political fence can agree on so much.

Perhaps we can along with other forum members also agree In regard to Momentum. Those activists originally came from the new Comunity branches that the Unite Union set up in around 2010 and consisted of residence in communities surrounding large industrial complexes and trading centres. The idea was to bring forward activists to voice the concerns of those residents in areas where those complexes affected their lives.

In that, the above activists affiliated through those branches to the Labour Party Constituency parties in the same manner as activists from the trade union industrial branches had done for "Donkey's years" and in that had attached no attention whatsoever. However, Jon Lansman and then Jeremy Corbyn became interested in the new development and that brought media attention to the grouping that it would have been better without in my opinion.

In regard to the character of those community branch activists, I would emphasise I have only met a few of them while carrying out Unite Union workplace safety courses. However, those I have met are indeed more "idealistic" than the activists from the industrial branches who very much in the main are hard left-wing in their views, but in that have their feet very firmly on the ground as to what is achievable in the politics of Britain at the present time.

I also agree with you POG's that should the Unions decide to "pull the plug" on the Parliamentary Labour Party at this point in time, it would still leave all those Labour MPs in Parliament for the next five years but lacking finance and support in the course of their Parliamentary work. The forgoing is very much being pointed out in dozens of texts and emails being circulated around the union movement in front of the many trade union branch meetings starting to take place in regard to the Labour Party.

Many of those communications are pointing out the fact that supporting a political wing is at the very centre of the TUC constitution. Indeed, that was the main reason why the TUC was set up all those many years ago, and in "pulling the plug" on the Labour Party they would be breaking their own constitution.

So, it all looks a right "conundrum", and I would very much like to hear your thoughts once again POGS, and the continuing thoughts of any forum member on what they feel would be the solution to that trade union movement/Labour party conundrum.

The basic annual salary for an MP from 1 April 2019 is £79,468. MPs also receive expenses to cover the costs of running an office, employing staff, having somewhere to live in London or their constituency, and travelling between Parliament and their constituency.

Lacking finance and support! Eh?