Children and Politics

Thanks for that interesting link.

For those interested in understanding the research on religious schools there is a great deal of research on this site

accordcoalition.org.uk/

The Accord Coalition is a wide coalition of organisations, including religious groups, humanists, trade unions and human rights campaigners. We share a common view on many issues to do with state-funded schools and believe that the current legislation on faith schools in particular is counter-productive.

We campaign to make admissions and recruitment policies in all state-funded schools free from discrimination on grounds of religion or belief.

We want schools to follow an objective, fair and balanced syllabus for education about religious and non-religious beliefs.

We want accountability under a single inspection regime for Religious Education, Personal, Social & Health (PSHE) education and Citizenship.

We believe all schools should provide their pupils with inclusive, inspiring and stimulating assemblies in place of compulsory acts of worship.

Our Chair the Revd Stephen Terry a former parish Priest of 43 years and Governor at community and faith schools for over 35 years, The Revd Stephen Terry has a longstanding passion for education and building inclusive communities.

He has long campaigned for a range of social issues including ending the discriminatory practices – enshrined in current education law – which permit faith schools to operate religiously selective pupil admissions and teacher employment arrangements and to provide a narrow education about religion and beliefs. Stephen says:

“We are fortunate to live in a diverse country, but if we want to ensure it is tolerant, inclusive and cohesive then our schools must encourage and strengthen these values, not work against them. Discrimination and segregation should have no place and least of all within education. The future happiness and wellbeing of society demands that Accord must not rest until a universally fair and inclusive schools system has been adopted.”

Varian, you have a real bee in your bonnet. Children at faith schools are at school with children of other faiths and live in a pluralistic where neighbours, friends and even members of their own family are of different faiths.

The real problem is single faith communities, where the local state school will only contain children of one faith, who go home to a community where everyone else is of that faith so that they have little or no contact with members of other faiths.

But of course that would offend your politically correct instincts.

Of course it is not impossible for children in faith schools to learn to be with others, and treat everyone with respect irrespective of their or their parents religion, but they will learn this more easily in an integrated environment.

It is, in my view, entirely wrong in principle to have state-funded schools that are faith-based.

A faith-based school can of course be a very good one (as can those that are non-aligned), but it comes with a label round its neck that may not be part of the belief-system of those who are being forced to fund it.

By all means let parents teach their faith to their own children if they wish, but public taxes should not be used to fund it. The national curriculum's requirement that children are taught about many faiths is undermined by a bias towards one faith.

varian, do you believe it's impossible for children who go the faith school of their parents choice to "learn to be with others, and teat everyone with respect irrespective of their or their parents religion". I've already mentioned some of mine went to the local C of E high school. They're in their 30's now and still involved in the friendship group established there. They're a very tolerant, friendly group. Their school supported their families in helping the children to learn to treat everyone with respect irrespective of their parents religion.
Rather an intolerant view, dismissing all faith schools in the way you have.

It does not matter whether a religious school does or does not accept children not of that religion. What matters is the label, which marks the children out as different and the apparent need for it. There is no justification for perpetuating these artificial divisions in the 21st century.

If parents are religious, they can take their children to Church, Sunday school, Chapel, Synagogue, Mosque, Temple, whatever and teach them religious observance at home.

That should have no place in a community school where children need to learn to be with others, and treat everyone with respect irrespective of their or their parents religion.

Varian If the community around a school is all of one ethnicity and belief and they do not mix with other groups, whether the local school is religiously affiliated or not, it will be a religious school. Isn't tat segration? What would you do?

Once children reach 11 they travel across communities for all sorts of reasons. To start with their are specialist academies. DGS is unlikely to go to the same secondary school as his sister as the school she got into is a performing arts and languages specialising school. DGS wants to go to the secondary school that specialises in science and technology. Their chosen schools are two miles apart. Both are state schools. DGD could have gone to two other state schools in the area all well spread apart. Catchment areas are much looser than they were and children criss cross towns and cities to get to the school they want to get into, or the only one that can offer them a place. Then there are all the private schools

And, anyway, very few catholic or Cof E schools are segrated. Most such schools accept children of all faiths or none. I have mentioned this a number of times, but it does not seem to register with you.

You are probably right varian but in this country, faith schools are an integral part of our education system. I'm not sure how simple it would be to simply change that. Our C of E and Catholic high schools are community based but Church attendance is a significant factor for the most sought after schools. That would be the one's with the best pastoral care and exam results, much of a pull for parents who can choose between that and the good local high school.
We have a Muslim's girls school rated Outstanding by Ofsted. I don't wish to offend anyone but, those girls are much more segregated than the girls at our RC/C ofE high schools. The girls from the Muslim school don't even mix at sports day events, much less go out on the razzle at end of term as they leave school or move into 6th form.

The worst aspect of religious schools is not indoctrination, but segregation. All children in a community should be educated together, not sent to different schools and wear different uniforms that mark them out as "one of them" or "one of us".

It would be quite unthinkable to segregate children on the basis of their parents' political affiliation.

Two of my children went to a Cof E High school, 10 minutes walk from our home. Almost 20 years since they left, they still remember it was affection, feel it served them very well. they're part of a large community of ex pupils, most of them now all parents. Some had their children Christened and hope to send them on to their old high school, others didn't want to continue the Christian tradition but interestingly, none of them are either hugely for or anti their Christian high school. RE was a compulsory subject at GCSE and what that led to was a real interest in other faiths and none. They had an excellent introduction to our own multi cultural/multi faith area. Several of the staff were gay or lesbian - not the kind of regime where free thought was crushed.
I'm absolutely aware of the issues raised by children going to faith schools where other faiths are rubbished, or where they aren't encouraged to critically evaluate what they're learning.

We had lots of people visiing our primary school to run assemblies. Thursday morning was guest assembly time. Some of the people were a bit strange though, still it meant we teachers could sit and listen for half an hour.

I do indeed have experience of going to a religious school - 60-odd years later I remember my fear of the nuns!!

Schools do indeed reflect their communities; simple solution: outlaw religion-based schools. Our local primary is theoretically non-aligned, but follows the government (national) edict that assemblies should be broadly Christian based. And a group called "Open the Book" comes in - I have fought for this to be "Open the BookS" - but to no avail.

Luckygirl in state schools these days children are taught about all the major religions. They are not taught "Jesus is the son of God" they are taught "Christians believe Jesus is the son of God" Quite a difference from the absolute assertion that 2 plus 2 equals 4.

Luckygirl have you any experience of attending a religious school? Did you notice my point that most people whether they have been to religious schools or not are not religious, even though they still know and believe that 2+2=4.

And you ingnored my point that state schools, where almost all the children in the catchment area are of the same religious background are effectively religious school.

The problem is not religious schools it is communities where residents interaction with people of other faiths is minimal. Once again, uncomfortable with the actuality, because it is not politically correct.

Communities indeed - of which schools are one part - and they have a captive innocent audience, who are never told how to distinguish the validity of, for instance 2+2 = 4; or Jesus is the son of god. Both are told to them by their teachers.

If religious teaching is really so dangerous, why do so few people of any age profess any religion?

I went to predominantly catholic schools. Almost without exception these contained quite a number of children who were not catholic and a number who were not Christian. We had separate RE lessons,

I cannot remember on any occasion being taught to hate or be suspicious of people professing other faiths. Like most children in the schools I attended we did not live in catholic communities. Neighbours, friends, workmates and family belonged to every faith and none. Living in a pluralistic community means children mix with all denominations all the time and have friends and family among them. This is not conducive to prejudice or indoctrinisation.

The real danger is in living in faith based communities, whether these are in Northern Ireland or some cities and towns in Britain. In an area where 90% plus of the children in a school are of the same faith, the local school, whether faith based or not, will be a faith based school. Communities where children never meet people of another faith, never work with them or have friends among them are where prejudice and fear live. Not in religious schools.

But of course admitting the problem is communities not schools is so very political incorrect. Much easier, Don Quixote -like to make a big deal about jousting with windmills. than try and find ways of dealing with the real problem.

Unfortunately the religious indoctrination of children in schools is the norm in this country. Political indoctrination may not be so blatant but I am sure it still occurs.

Children should be taught critical thinking, how to question sources of information and how to tell facts from opinions.

Trisher , I agree no problem with religion or politics taught in schools, providing its broad based and doesn’t single one faith or political view as good and the rest as wicked. I don’t expect we disagree about that

My granddaughter has told me I should vote Labour because teachers haven’t had a pay increase and labour would ensure they had one ...she also said the teacher pre election asked the children to ask their parents who they were going to vote for then they were asked in school the next day to report back. She also said we should vote labour to make sure there was a ‘redistribution of wealth’. Not the sort of phrase a 10 year old would use without them being told by a teacher. It’s so so wrong.

newnanny what would you do then if a pupil asked you what you thought about the current political situation. You could refuse to answer (in which case word would go round that you were a bit useless). You could lie and say you're not allowed to comment (in which case you'd be known as a wimp) or you could tell the truth and say why you thought that way, which might earn you a bit of respect. Children have changed a great deal and teachers now are not regarded with the same respect and awe they once were, when you could say and do as you wish and still be respected. Children now want more.
As far as the remark about schools goes the teacher was right. Would you prefer him to lie about things?
I've no objection to 13 year olds being given political or religious information. They will make up their own minds anyway. That's why so many are involved in climate change protests.

As far as teaching politics in school, it is a bit like religion as far as I am concerned. Teach ABOUT religion and politics, but do not favour one only.

I guess teaching political literature (which IS what is happening now) is age appropriate. BUT the stuff on the curriculum is very biased. In my opinion, appropriately so, but I'm not sure a right-winger would agree.

CERTAINLY the students I've taught have made direct links between the texts and the current UK financial situation.

I wish we could educate our children in an age appropriate way, throughout their time in schools. Primary schools are good in circle time - my almost 4 year old grandson is out of grabbing toys from other boys, his mantra now is "sharing is caring" .
We don't teach our own history well, or indeed at all these days. A significant influence on me age 13 was learning about the East India Company, which led on to slavery, the triangle between Africa, America and England. We were encouraged by the excellent teacher to discuss the subject as we drew maps.
I agree with MOnica's comment, that it should be possible to have our politicians visit schools to take about the importance of the democratic process.