Australia's fires, our floods and the climate crisis

On a recent visit to Kenya (visiting AC) we had to drive over a part of Mount Kenya and there were mile after mile of poly tunnels. I was astonished to learn that they were growing flowers for export, mainly to the UK.
Air miles, using precious water sources, plastic packaging, AC then pointed out that other than the tourist industry (hotels, safaris, conservation) this was a major employer in the area and without it there would be so many more people in poverty.

It really focused my thoughts, every action has a reaction and whilst I shall limit my purchases of cut flowers from anywhere abroad, I feel for the locals who rely on the buying power of us to provide them with employment and consequently a roof over their children's head and food on the table.

Sorry for typos - actually it was autocorrect again!

notann I do think we have to carefully manage our rivers and drains such as those on the Somerset Levels- but with long-term knowledge and expertise, some of which goes back centuries and worked with nature not again it.

Some new experts do come along with new ideas or try to divert rivers, prevent flooding in one area and thereby cause flooding further downstream as happened with the Thames. That was done against the advice of many experts.

People are just really hypocritical at the moment. They think theyre great for making "small swaps" but still essentially carry on with the same unsustainable lifestyles.

I recently got lectured by someone for not owning wax wraps (I dont need them! I bring salads or left overs to work in tupperware, I dont like sandwiches!)
Apparently EVERYONE should buy them cos climate change

Then I had to hear all about their upcoming cruise

I know, MerylStreep how you feel and I was hesitant to begin this thread because I don't want to be a party pooper and yet I feel uncomfortable reading or hearing about the cars and holidays and the extravagant present giving,
It's all around us. TV, adverts, even the news.

I guess it is my/our responsibility to press for change. Those who are coping with work and families, or on very low incomes who are struggling, don't have time, energy or knowledge to make their voices heard.

And yet, the best I can do is to come on here to relieve my conscience!

Thanks for joining in.

I agree Meryl. The over consumption going on now is horrendous. I have to bite my tongue when visiting my offspring and their family, but they are all I have so I have to be careful.

How lovely to read so many well informed posts.
I say this because sometimes I despair at some of the posts where posters are almost boastful of the fact that they have wardrobes full of clothes ( many not even worn) ?
Do they have no idea what goes into producing these clothes?
I could go on but I don't want to offend ?

All you say is sadly true, notanan. We have forgotten about common sense. The housing estates near us are built where there were once thriving water-powered mills along the river bank.
You may well ask why the Developers got permission.
Now 10 and 20 years down the line, some can't sell their houses and are blaming gravity and their neighbours (us) at the top of the hill for their waterlogged gardens.
All the wretched council could do was to offer sandbags.

On one new estate a reed bed swamp called a Detention Basin has been built into the landscaping. Maybe that is a case of the developers moving, slowly, with the times?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_basin

We moved up the hill to our present home 32 years because we felt we were overly close to the flood plain and our garden was vulnerable to flooding then.

Wetland hold/absorb so much carbon. Tree planting quotas a stupid if we're not maintaining our natural carbon sinks

(I mean your worry when I say "rightly so")

Rightly so, if it can no longer bulge there is will find a way to bulge elsewhere.

Basic physics: water displacement!

notanan2 totally agree with your post.

Our local council has refused permission for 500 + houses to be built on a flood plain theee times. Unfortunately it has been sent to central Government as the area has to build X amount of new properties, our MP is with the locals on this.

If the Thames is running high or the tides coincide with high winds or even just heavy rainfall this land regularly floods, it is under water at the moment.

There is a small industrial brown field site about a mile and a half up the hill which is more suitable, we are all worried about this situation.

The green party was the worst offender for this but all parties at the past election were focusing SOLELY on trees. Trees are great in naturally wooded areas But we need heaths and marshes too. Marshland absorbes TONNES of carbon, yet if some environmental policies had got in, marshes would have been drained (RELEASING Carbon) to meet RIDICULOUS tree planting targets.

People just dont understand nature.

Fields with hedges and trees grubbed out, huge arable dust bowls now. No deep roots for rainwater to percolate downwards and so there is sudden runoff and flash floods. Farmers are paid to do this, farmer in my ex village got paid over £40k to sit in his tractor with sprayers outstretched behind him.

People are so detatched from nature. They dont get that rivers are SUPPOSED to wax and wane. Not stay at one fixed level.

Living near the river is very posh and aspiration and you actually pay MORE to move INTO the flood zone! It's CRAZY!

I am absolutely completely baffled by my neighbour who just sold their house in our non flooding area and has bought right in the flood plain. Which is currently flooded.

I really do not get it. They say they did it because they can add value to the house, Vs their old "done" house, but surely in 10yrs it'll be un sellable and unmortgagable?

And that brings me to another point, why are mortgage companies still lending for these areas?

Its so arrogant. "We can fight nature back, we can control rivers they dont control us". Then shock every year when nature bites back!

I might be a bit mean here but I have limited sympathy for the "plight" of people who chose to live on top of what should be nature's natural overflow area.

I don't know why they give planning permission for homes on flood plains notanan!

Where I live I just do not understand why people are still buying houses on or near known flood planes, which have been rapidly expanding in recent years.

I dont get it! 20 years ago when DH and I bought our first joint property we refused to view anywhere in those areas. We always checked the flood maps and only viewed houses well away.

Flood plains are natural and good. They team with life, they absorb carbon from the atmosphere. But people think they should be drained and controlled and then the rivers have nowhere to go on full moons after rains!

The increased flooding where I live is less to do with climate change and more to do with ignorance and stupidity:
If you "re-enforce" the river at points A and B in its natural bulge zones so that you can have nice river view town houses, then the flooding at point C will HAVE to triple because its now the only point along the way where the river can bulge when it needs to!

PernillaVanilla it would be amazing if a drastic turn around could happen but even talking to people, my age, they aren't ready to give up the things they've got used to.
The crazy Christmas rush yesterday was a reminder of that.
I felt slightly better this morning as I spent money on locally grown fruit, veg and flowers (I have bought hyacinth bulbs to cheer in the season) I noticed that some of the charity shops are busy so some people are waking up.

People only want to make small comfirtable changes

Eg they dont want to be a bit uncomfortable/inconvenienced now to reduce major discomfort later:

E.g.
People still want to go on cruises but it's okay because they recycle

People want to buy as much stuff but its okay because its "green" new stuff (if you dont need any straws because youre perfectly capable of drinking from cups/glasses, then those metal straws are just more stuff

People where I live still insist they need their cars. We live in an arra well served with both busses and trains. They cite occassional rail cancellations as a reason, yet they are late because of road accidents and other traffic hold ups more frequently than the public transport using staff. They just dont want to! But its okay, because they bought a reusable coffee cup.

People dont see the irony of the amount of new "green" products they are being sold. Buying new stuff is not the point! You dont need ANY portable coffee cups that just encourage you to keep using fast food coffee chains on the go, just WAIT until you get where youre going then have a drink out of a mug or glass!

I know people who were there when the tsunami hit - they were up in the hills and said that the animals were distressed - a sure sign to those who really listen to nature, remember history, that something was about to happen.

Many of our man made catastrophes happen because we ignore history, at our peril.

I'm thinking now about the loss of life when the Tsunami hit Indonesia on Boxing Day 2004.
My DM was born in Asia and experienced hearing of tidal waves . There wasn't much reporting back then when a fishing village or two disappeared, and no Tourist Industry, which is responsible for the seaside resorts.

My DM never went near the sea or the bright sun. You kept in the shade and left for the hills in the dry hot season. You had respect for the power of the elements.

I feel I'm an extra in the early minutes of a disaster movie. The extent of flooding here this year and the fires in Australia rally should be sharpening everyone's attention bringing a desire to do something NOW. it might mean us all giving up our cars immediately and certain types of industry ceasing, we might all be out of work and hungry as a result, but at least we might just save the planet. In the meantime I get smug little messages on Facebook about recycling glitter Christmas cards as if this is going to make much difference to the apocalypse that is unfolding before our eyes.