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Food Banks and Poverty- was Nye right?

(358 Posts)
trisher Mon 30-Dec-19 10:42:51

Just found this quote from Nye Bevan. Is it possibly prophetic?
Soon, if we are not prudent, millions of people will be watching each other starve to death through expensive television sets
I think it's rather worrying.

Barmeyoldbat Mon 30-Dec-19 17:02:09

Baggs, attending food bank for many years does not give you a chance to turn your life around from the grinding poverty you are in. It just gives you respite for a few days. What help would you get to ease you out of low pay, zero hours, high rents etc. Some of the people we see are youngish people who have been in care and have no idea of how to budget, cook or organise family life. Life in care doesn't teach you that.

Grany Mon 30-Dec-19 17:13:04

Baggs evidence

EXCLUSIVE: The Conservatives are inviting private firms to bid for NHS cardiology, gynaecology, paediatrics and oncology services in big sell out

Private firms are being invited to bid for chunks of our health service – in complete contrast to Boris Johnson ’s repeated election campaign denials.

Here is link to artical

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/private-firms-invited-run-nhs-21178712.amp?__twitter_impression=true

trisher Mon 30-Dec-19 17:15:30

I think the whole point of Nye's remark is that we seem to be entering a period when inequalities are just accepted. And much on this thread seems to support that idea. There may not be people in the street dying every day but there are people suffering significant dietary restrictions. One of the factors in the proper brain development of children is adequate nutrition. Does anyone really doubt that there are children today who do not have the correct diet and that something should be done about them?

inkycog Mon 30-Dec-19 17:24:23

Thats terrible trisher. You only have to look at sporting fixtures between schools in affluent areas and schools in poor areas. The difference is shocking, let alone brain development.

Tooting29 Mon 30-Dec-19 17:29:29

The quotation comes from his book published in 1952, so perhaps we need to assess the context in which it was written. At the time UK was suffering austerity measures resulting from the end of WW2. UK was bankrupt and rationing still in place. Huge displacement and poverty of people across Europe, in countries rebuilding from total destruction. Fast forward life is different and certainly TV has been constructive in highlighting poverty, think Cathy Come Home and the impact of that in the 1960s, think famines in Africa, Yemen today, Syria, the desperate plight of refugees. Poverty in this country is relative and complex, as unacceptable as it is to see homeless people and dependency on food banks. It has always been with us and the poor reliant on charities such as the Salvation Army but we know more about it now through media. When people have chaotic lives, suffer abuse, have mental health issues or addiction, plus lack of affordable homes it's difficult to know where to start and what the Government needs to focus on. Governments of all colours have failed these people through the years. I can only hope this Government will address it.

Urmstongran Mon 30-Dec-19 17:55:09

The poor will always be amongst us.
Plus the feckless.
The drug addicts.
The alcoholics.
The feral youth who say fuk you lady* if you smile at them.
The stupid.
The lonely abused girls who get pregnant intentionally to have someone to love.
Those with disabilities.
And mental health problems.
The damaged souls from dysfunctional homes.

We have to rely on a government to look after its people. Plus some good charities - not all are.

It’s overwhelming to try to ‘fix’ society. I’m not uncaring, just realistic about life. There will always be people who need help. Always.

trisher Mon 30-Dec-19 18:00:57

Urmstonegran why do you include those with disabilities and those with mental health problems in your list are they in some way different from people being treated for cancer or heart problems? Is a disability the same as being feckless?

MaizieD Mon 30-Dec-19 18:04:00

We have to rely on a government to look after its people.

So you voted for the government that has inflicted this misery on our fellow citizens, has no intention of doing anything to alleviate it and has given a knighthood to its prime architect.

Sorry, Ug but your post has made me feel extremely nauseous...

ExperiencedNotOld Mon 30-Dec-19 18:04:13

State provided benefits, whether the old age pension or ‘dole’ was designed to support a very basic existence of food, shelter and some heat. The amount paid was initially increased in the late 60s/70s by Harold Wilson to curry favour with the electorate whilst allowed it to pay for some ‘nice to haves’ alongside subsisting. Couple this with the blurring between what’s needed and what’s really a want (mobile ‘phones, tv, etc) it means that some people now struggle to make the right choices and achieve that basic subsistence.
I accept that not everyone is fitted to make the wisest of choices but - linking time growstuff’s comment implying that Universal Credit is linked towards working to a more positive future we shouldn’t be accepting the development of a near permanent underclass expecting the charity of others.

Urmstongran Mon 30-Dec-19 18:06:50

Not at all trisher my post was just demonstrating that some people in our society will always need help. And my worrying about it all won’t change jack.

Urmstongran Mon 30-Dec-19 18:09:43

MaizieD I truly believe Boris will do great things for our society. Call me out in 5 years if I’m wrong. I’m happy to give him a chance.

MaizieD Mon 30-Dec-19 18:17:37

Just what makes you believe that, Ug?

Please give me some examples of what he has said, and what was in the tory manifesto that makes you believe that.

Every single assessment of possible Brexits has concluded that the nation will be poorer. So how is Johnson going to set about improving the lot of the poor?

lemongrove Mon 30-Dec-19 18:18:28

Tooting ??An excellent post.

Joelsnan so sorry to hear that, having a DS or DD with mental health problems ( especially those that lead to suicide)
Is a terrible thing indeed.

Baggs...yes, it would be paradise, not just progress, where no individual ever suffered.

growstuff Mon 30-Dec-19 18:27:50

So how would you all live on £73.10 a week? Given that claiming benefits has to be done online, how is a mobile phone a luxury? I hardly ever watch TV, so could live without that, but I would find it extremely difficult to live without a phone of some sort and the internet.

So, please, how would you make ends meet on £73.10, even if you were lucky enough to be awarded the full amount?

growstuff Mon 30-Dec-19 18:28:54

Given that people grumble about coping on the basic state pension, how would they manage on less than half?

JenniferEccles Mon 30-Dec-19 18:29:42

Urmstongran I fear the optimistic amongst us are wasting our time.

As I have previously said, there are far too many on here absolutely determined to see the negative in everything.

They will NEVER give the government a chance to prove itself, preferring to carry on flogging their doom laden predictions.

I would hate to have such a pessimistic outlook on life.

Urmstongran Mon 30-Dec-19 18:42:39

Because MaizieD the stupid experiment that George Osborne promoted ’austerity’ has officially ENDED. Many services were cut or decimated.

Boris will spend. He also intends to include the Labour heartlands in his ‘One Nation’ approach. Moves are already underway.

Watch this space.

inkycog Mon 30-Dec-19 18:47:27

Jennifer, I await your reply on other points I have raised. It is not about optimism or being a gloom bucket, all around us we see evidence of poverty. Children with stunted growth and stunted height.....possibly not in the Home Counties, but many elsewhere.

The so called " austerity" programme hasn't helped. Do you have any empathy for anybody ?

MerylStreep Mon 30-Dec-19 18:49:22

joelsnan
I know this is no consolation for your loss, but I do know one very decent person in the Southend benifit office who fights tooth and nail for people who are/ were in your sons situation, even working in her own time.

Tooting29 Mon 30-Dec-19 18:49:37

MaizeD. All governments over time have failed these people not just the Conservative goverment over the last 9 years. History shows that there is always a certain number of people at the bottom of the pile. There shouldn't be but the reality is there is. The residium as our Victorian forebears called them. The problems leading to poverty were different yet sadly the same. Famine, infant mortality, too many children, low life expectancy, insecure employment, disability, absent or heavy drinking fathers, domestic abuse up to a huge factor in poverty. Tudors brought in Poor law and parish relief, Victorians the tyranny of the workhouse. As a child in the 60s I can remember slums and bomb sites, shell shocked men from the wars talking to themselves in shop doorways, alcoholic and meths drinkers living in bus shelters homes with no hot water or baths and families struggling to make do and mend, hand me down clothes sourced through jumble sales. Today the population and the poor have increased expedentially. The concept of UC was probably fair in theory, where it fell down is in its execution and delays. The public also take a dim view of those who abuse benefits which has probably led to more complex application process. There has to be some partnership between Government, local authorities and charities to support these people and help them. It's a sad reality of life and history shows us there is no simple answer.

Urmstongran Mon 30-Dec-19 18:50:25

UC is a sliding scale. I’ve just looked on the gov.uk website.

On top of the basic allowance, you might get additional allowances including:

child element
childcare costs element
limited capability for work-related activity element (LCWRA)
limited capability for work and work element (not available after 3 April 2017)
carer element
housing costs element.

inkycog Mon 30-Dec-19 18:54:21

Yes but until you have slid, you know nothing.

A sliding scale.....please.

I met a man who had slid. He had no shoes, no money , no transport, no food, no nothing. It makes me sick.I also met a lady who had made a bad choice, mixed up with a drug dealer. Her health ruined, all hope gone.
Tell them about your sliding scale.

GracesGranMK3 Mon 30-Dec-19 18:59:21

I haven't seen any reports of people starving to death in the UK and I don't think I will.

For heaven's sake! Do we have to show you the bodies for you to care?

MaizieD Mon 30-Dec-19 19:05:40

Thanks for the history lesson, Tooting. It's not as though I have a History degree with the 19th C Poor Law and the growth of social welfare comprising part of it.

Urmstongran Mon 30-Dec-19 19:14:49

I met a man who had slid. He had no shoes, no money , no transport, no food, no nothing. It makes me sick

Now why would this be, do you think? Help is out there. Why didn’t he access it? Drugs? alcohol addiction? MH issues?

I also met a lady who had made a bad choice, mixed up with a drug dealer. Her health ruined, all hope gone

Sorry but you illustrate well what I referred to up thread. These people will ALWAYS be with us. The feckless, the stupid. There is no legislating for it. We can’t as a society CURE all ills. Never could, never will.

While many erroneously post about Boris being "far-right" the reality we have seen is he is actually a liberal Tory. So I suspect the next 5 years will be ensuring money goes to those areas that voted Tory for the first time, and the Tories will seek to inhabit nearer to that Blairite "zone" that Labour should have been.

Meaning that people who voted Blue, may stay Blue.

Big trouble then for Labour.