Food Banks and Poverty- was Nye right?

Growstuff Now you have explained your situation I apologize for having a go at you and commend you for the way you are managing and particularly growing your own veg. I have an allotment and was doing quite well till last year when I fell on it and broke hip and wrist, was just recovering from that when I fell again and broke other hip so 2020 has a question mark over it where the allotment is concerned.

Absolutely agree Lemon, this is a very complex situation. There is no way that people who are unable to work should be being denied benefits. That is what benefits are for, to support those who can’t work through ill health, and to provide a safety net for people who, through no fault of their own, fall on hard times.
Unfortunately there are people who abuse the benefit system, for example those who commit benefit fraud. Others who, whilst in a minority, live on benefits with little intention to find a job. I worked in a deprived community when I was teaching, and I know there were a number of families for whom a life on benefits was the norm. But equally, there were single mums who got a job as soon as their children were in school, and many other families who worked hard in low paid jobs to provide for their families.
Tackling benefit fraud is important, encouraging people who can work, to actually go to work is also important. But equally, providing for those vulnerable members of society who cannot work is crucial, and makes us a better society for doing so.

"In the absence of time to think and calmness in thinking, one no longer considers divergent opinions; one is satisfied with hating them." Nietzsche

Benefit fraud. So much insistence on benefit fraud which somehow justifies the appalling treatment of those in genuine need.

Do these self righteous harpers on 'benefit fraud' actually know how much fraud there actually is?

It's a lot, lot less than most people think it is:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39980793

So let's ignore the fraudsters and think about the people in real need... Tax evasion costs the economy far more than does benefit fraud; where's all the pearl clutching and indignation about that?

(And let's be realistic, at least the fraudulently obtained benefit money goes back into the economy... it's spent here in the UK, and so eventually returns to the treasury by taxation, not squirrelled off into offshore bank accounts..)

Billions available in benefits is just not claimed either, particularly by older people.

baggs Who is hating whom Baggs?

Nietzche also said "Man is the cruelest animal.".

I was ashamed to work for DWP when I retired 6 years. I worked with older people, helping them to get more benefits. But my last 2 weeks was spent on Jobcentre reception. My first thought was When did Jobcentres stop helping people?

Some more Nietzsche quotes:

„Manchmal wollen Menschen die Wahrheit nicht hören, denn das würde ihre ganze Illusion zerstören.“

(Sometimes people don’t want to hear the truth because that would destroy their whole illusion.)

„Die Schlange, welche sich nicht häuten kann, geht zugrunde. Ebenso die Geister, welche man verhindert, ihre Meinungen zu wechseln; sie hören auf, Geist zu sein.“

(The snake which cannot cast its skin, dies. In the same way, the minds which are prevented from changing their opinions; they cease to be mind.)

MaizieD, do you actually ever read a comment properly and absorb what has been written? I mentioned benefit fraud in my post because I know benefit fraud happens. But if you properly read my post, I also mentioned the importance of benefits to those in need. I wrote a balanced post, you chose to focus only on one thing in the post.

As I wrote before, I think it was about 2011/12. Before then, DWP staff would signpost claimants to other forms of help. Initially, I was sent for an interview with a job counsellor and on a course, specifically for middle-aged women. I was also given loads of information about setting up my own business and allocated a mentor to help with a business plan.

My first attempt didn't work out as well as I'd hoped, so I had to claim JSA again. There were fewer staff and most of them didn't seem very bright. They were just mindlessly following a script. I felt as though they were trying to catch me out.

I did what I had always intended to do, which was to set up my own business, but there was no help available, apart from ridiculous course run by Capita (I think) on how to write a CV. Doh!

Whereas the old regime was genuinely supportive, I felt it turned into turning people into feeling as though they were scroungers.

I had to apply for a minimum number of jobs every week, including those for which I was totally unsuited. I think I really annoyed my so-called advisor because I wrote to the DWP itself asking for a job as an advisor.

I had paid tax and NICs for years. As with any insurance system, I have no objection to checking the claim is genuine, but I do expect the scheme to pay up when the claim is genuine.

I'm sure you have evidence of that maddyone, but why do all genuine claimants have to be treated with suspicion, as though they are all criminals?

I felt into turning people feel as though they were scroungers (typo)

So how would you differentiate between the "scroungers" and those genuinely in need, maddyone?

From my own experience, the vast majority are in genuine need and many have serious issues, which make coping with life, including finding a job, difficult.

It's very difficult to be a benefit "scrounger" now, especially since lifetime DLA ended and was replaced by PIP, and UC was introduced, forcing claimants of ESA onto it.

Particularly cruel though is the undrr-25 rate of UC. Cruel and arbitrary.

Having worked as a District Nurse and a Health Visitor I came across many "poor" families who had their power cut off , complained they had no food and yet in many cases smoked heavily, drank heavily and also often had exotic pets especially fish which also cost them a fair amount. Their children often appeared to be second thoughts when it came to care and feeding!

people who have never used a food bank are unaware your only allowed to use it three times a year, i was allowed to use it once and found the whole thing humiliating and embarrassing so i never went back,

How did they afford it Jacks? Were they doing something illegal to supplement their benefits?

You obviously never visited me when I was ill and struggled to put food on the table for my children. I frequently sold bits of jewellery and some other stuff I'd been left by my grandmother, but couldn't have afforded to drink, smoke or have pets.

I've seen what they put in the food boxes too. It's probably OK for a few days, but nobody could live healthily on the contents. Too many carbs and no fresh (or even frozen) fruit and veg.

Interesting comment about Call the Midwife, as I find it a programme that highlights the dire need and poverty in late 1950s and early 1960s. Slum housing and home births with minimal pain relief, not to mention pre pill and women trapped in the home by a growing family. Dockers on uncertain work and wages. Unmarried mothers treated like outsiders. Not to mention ruthless landlords, protection rackets, back street abortionists, more stillbirths. Society has got fairer for most but unfortunately not for all. Boris says he wants to level up opportunities- well let's see how he fairs and judge him in 5 years time.

I expect claimants are treated with suspicion because the Welfare employee is doing his or her job.

Experience would have told the staff to check everything - to ensure that the claimant is telling the truth.

The Welfare State has grown enormously over the years, and I often wonder just what percentage of the population is claiming some benefit or other.

Yes of course those in genuine need through no fault of their own should be helped, as they already are, but judging by the huge fuss over UC there must be an enormous number who rely on the State to live.

In a country with unemployment at it’s lowest level for decades, and a thriving economy, it’s impossible to believe that many on benefits can’t find work.

Jennifer UC is also claimed as a top-up benefit for those in work, not just the unemployed or long-term sick.

I've seen what they put in the food boxes too. It's probably OK for a few days, but nobody could live healthily on the contents. Too many carbs and no fresh (or even frozen) fruit and veg.
The first time I contributed to a food bank I put in fresh food but then was asked to retrieve it because only food with a 'shelf life' could be accepted.
So yes, it could be very 'samey' and carbohydrate heavy because that is the kind of food that will keep but there is always tinned fruit and tinned vegetables which can be donated and which are nutritious.

Three times a year is not going to go very far, is it janxxx. no, I don't think many people are aware of that, I think that some believe people can just turn up at a food bank and receive.

sorey, meant to add this link:
www.eatright.org/food/vitamins-and-supplements/nutrient-rich-foods/are-canned-foods-nutritious-for-my-family

eloethan, I understand that Nietzsche quote to be talking about opinions that are hated (and not properly considered) rather than people.

JE, You post away but never , ever answer any questions. Nonetheless, I will have a try....Do you know anybody who has applied for UC?

Have you or any of your family recently tried to find a job and support themselves.

Not in the same league as some people but my AS has an excellent degree, very smart appearance, very articulate and has a job which pays his rent and not much more. It isn't easy to find employment.