The Conservatives and the NHS

I think you read too much into my "if", growstuff. I was not questioning that there are fewer doctors and nurses. It was an "if... then..." point I was making: if (or since) this is so (which it is), then this needs to happen (and may well happen over the next few years). Sorry that wasn't clear.

One factor which is often forgotten, is that the 'number' of doctors/GPs is one thing- the number of hours they work, is another.

It was the norm in the 60s/70s for Junior doctors to work over 120 hrs per week -now it is 70 on call and 52 (from top of head)- so can you imagine how many more doctors you need just to cover this. GPs also used to work 70 + hours and then have all the admin of the 'business' to do, insurance reports that take forever, etc, etc- and used to do home visits and night-cover- on average 1 night in 3 or 4, on top of a full working day, not instead of. They no longer do so, and many GPs choose to work part time - eg part-time of the shorter working hours. No-one, let alone the Government, is taking this into account in the figures.

Baggs The statistics show that there are fewer doctors and nurses. It's not a question of "if". You are very lucky if you have not come across any part of the NHS which isn't working well.

The current government has committed to building no more than six new hospitals - and they're not completely "new" anyway. One of them is my local hospital and there have been plans on the table for years. The finances were already allocated and all the trust needed was the green light.

The government has in the past promised more GPs, but there are, in fact, fewer now than when the promise was made.

I don't know why you think the caller wasn't a doctor.

The whole system is already under so much pressure currently- and yet we have NOT had any kind of winter weather, snow or ice, and no flu to speak of ...

Imagine what will happen when and if we do ...

The savings I am advocating are meant to be practised alongside petitions/lobbying for funding etc which are already running. However no organisation in the world has access to a bottomless pit of funding and avoidable waste of any kind is not a good thing.

Rivernana says:

'we can all contribute towards strengthening the position of the NHS by doing our bit to reduce waste and save funds and resources'

Well - that is true but - it reminds me of people that think all they have to do to save the planet is recycle things!

A difference, but a drop in the ocean!

Rivernana asks 'What do you think?'

I think that if we want a reasonable NHS and care system we need to provide decent funding. The best way to do that as individuals - is to vote for it!

Jonathan Ashworth

Sadly at a time when our NHS is suffering from one of the worst winter crisis on record Tory MPs en masse have just voted against our attempt to fully end austerity & give the NHS the increased funding it needs.

How strange the Tories seem able to find money for less important matters.

Trisher the crux of the petition is for a public information campaign. The original petition does ramble on a bit but I have asked people to look at the updates to see how it has progressed as more people have contacted me with their experience and advice. In one of my updates I have stated that the whole thing has been a very enlightening experience for me. I am not complaining - just trying to get some messages out so that waste can be reduced. I have applied that personally to my situation and am super careful about how meds etc are ordered for my relative. There are other sick people who need help with this sort of thing and I am not criticising - just asking for the information to be communicated regularly and succinctly.

Rivernana in that case I think you should remove this from your petition. ^ I am also aware that sadly when a person passes away any unused medication has to be similarly disposed off. The same applies to equipment - particularly mobility aids.^
I have already said my mum's loaned equipment was collected. What you seem to be complaining about now is about the lack of information, not no collection.

On the subject of waste, there was a piece on R4 this morning about over 100 varieties of hernia mess being used in the NHS, all doing the same job but costing vastly different. Apparently quick wins are being sought by tackling supply stocks.

Trisher there would be no need for anyone to organise collection of mobility aids. There is a nationwide company called Medequip that has a contract with the NHS to collect, steam clean/sterilise and resupply equipment. No one in my area and several other areas are given this information when they try to return items to the hospital.

I listened to some of the link. I was not convinced that the speaker was a GP as he claimed. I expect that is very bad of me but — shrug — he just didn't come across like any GP I've ever known, and I've known a few because of living in several different places and because of family and friend GPs.

If doctor and nurse numbers are indeed so much lower than in 2012 that is indeed shocking. As I understand it the current government is talking about increasing those numbers and building new hospitals. There hasn't been enough time yet to know if they will actually succeed. I seem to remember that the last idea about social care for old people, the so called "dementia tax", didn't go down too well but I had gathered from the media I do follow that active thinking and searching for practical ideas in that area have not been shelved. Again, time will tell. The baby bulge of which I am part has been known about for at least half a century so I reckon all governments have been guilty of not planning for elderly care for at least that long as well, not just Tories. Not that that excuses Tories.

The part of the NHS that I've had contact with over the last half century has never felt as if it has been "destroyed". It seems to have been working pretty well. Admittedly, I have no experience of major operations and procedures but some of my family have and they have been well served. How many times would the life of, say, your brother, have to have been saved for you to admit less than "destroyed", grany? How many years would you have to have been receiving good care for long term arthritis? Perhaps you have been lucky and not needed to test the NHS so fundamentally?

Could you give me an example of what you call MSM lies and rhetoric, please

Well Baggs you never hear newspapers MSM holding this government to account, most are right wing but even so.

And what they would print is lies always blaming the NHS for its own failure not the fact that NHS been underfunded for 10 years. Social care cut underfunded. When junior Drs went on strike it was said they are greedy wanting pay rise when Drs were striking over safety of their patients when asked to change their work pattern And you know junior Drs do work seven day week and for very little pay as it happens. Only consultants get good pay and they work extra hard to get the job.

Properly funding social care

Well if you listened to the discussion and from what the dr was saying I don't know what more proof you'll need.

Spelled out

Over 10 thousand less Drs since 2012 thousands less nurses beds cut hospital closures land sold. No provision for social care morevcuts more end up in hospitals taking up beds.
Tories said nothing about properly funding social

And where is the funding for all NHS or rather lack of proper funding? From this government since 2010, believe it or not.

The Tories have virtually destroyed our NHS

Wales does not have to keep paying for expensive PFIs either, as there are few, if any, in Wales.

Actually, when I say forced, GPs will send Welsh patients on the border to English hospitals for procedures because the waiting lists are much shorter.
We are allowed to use Minor Injuries Units in England because ours have been closed.
However, English patients on the border seem unable to access any services in Wales which may be closer to them geographically.

Wales receives more per person in funding from Westminster than does England.

I had heard of that, calli, but have forgotten the details. Did the devolved NHS in Wales have the resources, needed to provide Welsh people with whichever treatment they are 'forced' to go to England for, before devolution? Or has NHS Wales never had those particular treatments available?

Another Twitter link from person or persons unknown, ie just one person's unsubstantiated opinion, Baggs.

People in Labour run Wales are forced to try to access NHS services in England.

Also, I'm in Scotland, and while NHS Highland is not perfect, it's nowhere near that exaggerated state.

Do even the poorest countries lay their dead out in the street? I think not. Even in India where, at least until the vultures that picked the flesh off corpses were affected by pesticides, they laid the bodies out on rooftops rather than in the street.

Could you give me an example of what you call MSM lies and rhetoric, please?

I read various media outlets but not the tabloid newspapers. No TV or radio either. So maybe I've missed something.

This is not an exaggeration about the state of our NHS
saying something would need to be done like this to draw people's attention to what is happening as most people are unaware and believe the MSM lies and rhetoric sadly.

We are going to lay out the dead in the streets

I wonder if this exaggeration will be beaten this year?
#ApocalypseNow#

if you voted Tory, you are responsible for your actions .......

NHS Doctor: "We are going to lay out the dead in the streets... What does it take for people to wake up and do something?" #NHS #ToryBritain #CorbynWasRight

This is from a Doctor this is what's now happening to our NHS

twitter.com/JerryHicksUnite/status/1215663884415258624?s=20

Exactly starbird. We need to campaign to save the NHS, remove its parasitical management levels, and nationalise the greedy pharma companies.