Well done Lawrence Fox!

Duplicate CVs using different names would be picked out in any HR dept. This would probably be the reason for rejection as it would be perceived that the content had been copied.

Although of British heritage, my name could be perceived to be of African or similar origin. To my knowledge this has not been detrimental to my career. I only ever applied for jobs where I well matched the job and person spec. I know that there are many who do not do this and apply for jobs far above their abilities.

Of course they can, for research purposes- exactly the same CV, just different name.

BTW, I'm just as sceptical about most newspaper reports about "studies", academic or otherwise, regardless what they're about.

I like your well argued post of 18:00, eloethan. However, I think that many people feel that the term racist/racism (and even nazi) has been used far too often, and wrongly, in recent years so it has lost some of its power (and its meaning). I think that's why, as well as the criticism and abuse LF is getting, he's also getting masses of support. People are just sick of being called racists when they're not or being told something is racism when it isn't.

Reading through stuff now...

Um. It's not possible for two people to have "identical CVs and cover letter" unless they've cheated by collaborating. This makes me doubt the accuracy of other parts of the report or, at the very least, to wonder at the writer's competence both at writing and interpreting studies.

Thank you, eloethan.

Persons with various disabilities frequently state that that they have problems in accessing employment and in using public amenities such as trains, buses and public lavatories, amongst other things.

Would it be thought appropriate for large numbers of able-bodied people to weigh in, dismissing their complaints and saying they are concocting stories about the difficulties they are having, claiming that disability legislation is yet another reinforcement of petty political correctness initiatives and that it puts able bodied people at a disadvantage, etc, etc?

I don't think many people would think it at all appropriate and yet it seems when it comes to the issue of racism it seems to be quite in order for the majority white population of a country, against all evidence to the contrary, to speak with assumed authority of the experience of being non-white and to dismiss allegations of racism as "playing the race card" or as over sensitivity.

Baggs had the people you are asking about been saying the poor were find and dandy I would equate their views as similar to LF's. As it is empathy and understanding are shown by appreciating in the first place that there is a problem and then doing something about it. LF did neither

Eloethan - here I am again, thanking you for well informed comments.
Its curious, that so many people can come together to deny what was before our eyes on QT (yes, trisher, I saw it as you did) and also what research based evidence tells us. I sometimes need to remind myself, that in the post Trump, post Michael Gove times, that experts and research mean nothing.

Baggs Since you ask for the sources of my claims of ongoing and fairly common racial discriminatory practices in housing and employment:

Employment

The Guardian 2019

"Minority ethnic Britons face 'shocking' job discrimination

"Exclusive: UK research finds levels of discrimination unchanged since late 1960s

......... "Black Britons and those of south Asian origin face “shocking” discrimination in the labour market at levels unchanged since the late 1960s, research has found.

"A study by experts based at the Centre for Social Investigation at Nuffield College, University of Oxford, found applicants from minority ethnic backgrounds had to send 80% more applications to get a positive response from an employer than a white person of British origin.

"A linked study by the same researchers, comparing their results with similar field experiments dating back to 1969, found discrimination against black Britons and those of south Asian origin – particularly Pakistanis – unchanged over almost 50 years.

.... "The researchers sent almost 3,200 applications to both manual and non-manual jobs – including software engineers, marketing, chefs and shop assistants – advertised on a popular recruitment platform between November 2016 and December 2017.

"The study, which will be launched at the British Academy, London, on Friday, included 33 different minority ethnic groups, belonging to five broad groups. Additionally, two minority ethnic groups – Nigerian and Pakistani – were designed to have sufficiently large numbers of applications for separate analysis. Different ethnicity applicants were randomly assigned to different job vacancies – only one application was sent per post – and the number of callbacks/invitations for interview compared.

"On average, 24% of applicants of white British origin received a positive response from employers, compared with 15% of minority ethnic applicants applying with identical CVs and cover letters. All of the minority applications clearly stated that they were either British-born or had arrived in the country by the age of six and had obtained all their education and training in Britain.

"Is it easier to get a job if you're Adam or Mohamed?
By Zack Adesina and Oana Marocico
BBC Inside Out
6 February 2017

"A job seeker with an English-sounding name was offered three times the number of interviews than an applicant with a Muslim name, a BBC test found.

"Inside Out London sent CVs from two candidates, "Adam" and "Mohamed", who had identical skills and experience, in response to 100 job opportunities.

"Adam was offered 12 interviews, while Mohamed was offered four.

"Although the results were based on a small sample size, they tally with the findings of previous academic studies.

These have found British Muslims are less proportionately represented in managerial and professional occupations than any other religious group.

" 'Significant discrimination'

The fake candidates applied for 100 jobs as business managers in the competitive field of advertising sales in London.

After two and a half months, Adam was offered three times more interviews than Mohamed.....

"What we've identified very clearly is that the Muslim-sounding person's CV is only likely to get an interview in one out of three cases.

"Yogesh Khrishna Davé, 56, is the director for quality at a pharmaceutical company in Slough. It has taken him decades to reach this senior role.

"During the journey up the ladder he suspected he was being consistently overlooked for jobs because of his name. So he secretly carried out his own experiment.

"I entered the job market in the 80s. I put my CV in and it was disappointing. I got rejection letters.

"Someone suggested: 'Why don't you put a very English name on your CV [as well as sending one in your own name]... and see who they might offer the job to?' So I had my name, Yogesh, and John Smith. John Smith got the interview. I got rejected for the interview."............

"A field experiment for the Department for Work and Pensions in 2009 found ethnic minority applicants were discriminated against in favour of white applicants in 29% of cases.

"In 2015, a report by the charity Demos found British Muslims were less proportionately represented in managerial and professional occupations than any other religious group." .......

Housing

Reported in the Guardian October 2013:

Estate agents discriminate against black people, finds BBC investigation

"Posing as a landlord, reporter uncovers London agents willing to meet request flat should not be let to African-Caribbean renters

"Estate agents discriminate against black people - BBC finds
Estate agents say they cannot openly bar black people but can stop them taking up a flat by pretending it has already been let or falsely promising to call back, according to the BBC programme.

"Estate agents in London are routinely discriminating against black people looking for a home in the private rental market, an undercover investigation has found.

"The BBC's Inside Out programme uncovered 10 estate agents in north-west London who were willing to meet
landlords' specification that properties should not be let to African-Caribbean people.

"Posing as a landlord who did not want to let out his flat to black people, an undercover reporter asked agents if they would be willing to discriminate against potential tenants. All 10 said although they could not openly bar black people they could prevent them taking up the flat by pretending it had been let, or by falsely promising to call them back.........

"Undercover researchers with the exact same credentials – one white, one black – then posed as potential tenants interested in the flat and were told very different stories. Jo, who is white, was immediately giving a viewing, while Deane, who is black, was told that the flat had been let..........

"Inside Out London producer Guy Lynn said the investigation was prompted after hearing that racial discrimination was a huge and growing problem. "I spoke to lawyers, letting agents, landlords, they all said that this was something that was incredibly easy and very common.....

"Equality lawyer Arpita Dutt said the consequences for society of such racism were serious. "This type of behaviour takes us back 40-50 years ......."

I believe there are several other studies that demonstrate similar results.

I’d be interested to know why the mixed race audience member’s view is more valid than LF’s? I ask because on the Jeremy Vine show a black, female panel member didn’t feel criticism of MM was racist either. By your reasoning someone’s views on anything are defined by their class and upbringing. You wouldn’t have any problem with a white, middle class intellectual lecturing you on racism and the varying nuances of such but you won’t accept it in reverse; that is telling you what isn’t racism.

I don’t know if all the criticism aimed at M has been racist. My criticism is recent and has nothing to do with her colour but rather what I see as hypocrisy.

Many of the original Fabians and British socialists had privileged backgrounds, trisher. Do you think that prevented them from understanding enough to know that dreadful working conditions and poor pay had to be addressed for the improvement of societ?

Likewise Wilberforce and other philanthropists.

trisher your post from earlier

GrannyLaine Perhaps it would be helpful for you to actually watch the exchange between the two people on QT. Your transcript isn't actually 100% accurate I'm not sure where you got it from. There's a link to the clip earlier in this thread. I will believe that you have accidently and not deliberately tried to misrepresent what actually happened

I watched the show as it was broadcast and have watched it since. Does your condescending attitude know no bounds?

You’re over-egging my cake here Galaxy! Football was just a way of illustrating the danger of criticism of a person of colour, age, gender for poor behaviour and having it turned into an ‘ism’. And neatly avoided answering my point.....

Galaxy. I'm not sure that you're well up on football.

Racist abuse of players is deplorable

However, all players get terrible abuse

Just google some of the chants

They also regularly get coins and bottles of unpleasant liquid thrown at them

All colours

Some football fans abuse players of opposing teams

Just a fact of life

Dear god. The point is white strickers arent getting that abuse are they. It's the black strickers who are consistently having things thrown at them, listening to monkey chants, having to have games stopped because of the abuse.

Do I think the mixed race woman's opinion carries more weight than LFs? of course I do. And LF is entitled to think exactly what he likes, what he isn't entitled to do (and nor is the mixed race woman) is to say for certain there was no racism involved.
As far as LF goes I would no more regard his opinion on racism as based on experience than I would consider his views about growing up on a council estate as being so. He's lived a life of privilege in a certain section of society and his views are defined by that.

Galaxy I think the white strikers would prefer being hit by a banana than a bottle or a coin.

Baggs Thank you for replying. I was interested in any response from a certain quarter as they dismiss LF’s opinions because he isn’t informed enough as a white male, indeed he’s classified as a toe rag and a prick by certain posters. A mixed raced female held a similar view. I wondered if any vile insults would be slung her way?

Obviously I was referring to normal folks watching not idiots - you can’t legislate for those.

Well the white strikers are unlikely to get bananas thrown at them if that's any help.

The problem with ‘ism’ argument, whether it sexism, racism, ageism etc., is that you almost daren’t say anything that is other than complimentary without being accused of it.

If you criticise a black striker for missing a penalty is it because he’s black or because he’s below par?

We have to be able to call out bad manners, language and behaviour without the accusations of ‘ism’.

Incidentally there was an audience member on QT that same evening who said she didn’t believe any of the criticism aimed at MM had been racist. She described herself as mixed race which she was. Does that mean her opinion is better informed than LF’s?

Interesting question, tickingbird. Her opinion might be given more weight but there's no real reason why it should. The reason I think this is because your question reminds me of two Ugandan friends I had in Oxford, both black (different shades of black, iyswim), one of whom claimed to have suffered a great deal of racism in the UK, and the other none. I concluded eventually that their different personalities had more to do with their perceptions than anything else.

If the Queen is going to come out supporting Andrew then the monarchy might have even more troubles ahead.

jura2 I didn't say trisher sneered did I? Read my post again, I said suziewuzie sneered. Which she did. And does frequently. Just giving her a patronizing taste of her own medicine. Why don't you try calling her out on it, instead of me?