Well done Lawrence Fox!

Incidentally there was an audience member on QT that same evening who said she didn’t believe any of the criticism aimed at MM had been racist. She described herself as mixed race which she was. Does that mean her opinion is better informed than LF’s?

"Enough is enough" - for me, that means stop playing the race card when it is abundantly clear that "race" is not involved in the criticism of the individual. I think we all know that racism exists in many forms and I haven't seen any posts on this thread that actually deny it exists - and yes, of course it should be challenged. BUT, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, when the "race card" is overplayed, as it has been in recent months, then the argument against racism is actually undermined, because people in general get so sick of being accused of being racist, when they are not, and racism isn't actually the reason for the initial criticism or disagreement. By all means, call it racism when it IS racism, but stop calling it racism when it isn't. Those that do so are doing their argument no favours at all.

ladymuck You're right - but what has been "swept under the carpet" is the fact that non-white people in this country have been subjected to discrimination in the job and housing market - and in many other areas of public life.

Various studies have shown that when people with surnames that suggest they have non-white origins apply for jobs, even though their qualifications may be superior to other applicants, they have far less chance of being short-listed than people with typically British or European surnames. Estate agents have been recorded informing colleagues that certain landlords have specified non-white potential tenants should not be put forward for consideration. These are FACTS.

You say "enough is enough". Enough of what exactly? Enough of non-white people bleating on about how they are discriminated against - even though research has shown that they actually ARE discriminated against? Enough of people stating that there is no discrimination and racism within our society, even though there most patently is? Basically, enough of hearing the truth and of acting upon it?

What I say is - enough of people like Laurence Fox who has no clue whatsoever about the lives of the average person - let alone the average non-white person - and his pontificating about issues on which he has no experience whatsoever.

wade have people really said on this thread that racism only works one way? Surely the issue is the value of someone’s opinion ( or in LF’s case categorical assertion) on whether it exists ot not. I’ve never lived in a black community as a white person and would never challenge what you’ve said about your experiences there. It’s also a question of degree - BAME people are much more likely than white people to experience racism. And as I’ve said before, it’s not as simple as being called names or having unpleasant things said to you, but about the invidious , nuanced often institutionalised racism

Thank you WadesNan- must have been hard. My mum came from a very Bourgeois Protestant background, divorced from her first society marriage, with a child- and fell in love with my dad, a Catholic who was an excellent worker at grand-dad's factory and highly respected - until they fell in love. They went through hell from both sides. No 'colour' involved.

No-one, but no-one, on this thread has stated anywhere that racism on works one way.

I have read through this thread with interest. Many are disagreeing with LF and his background and colour have frequently been mentioned.

I have personally experienced racism and can confirm it comes from all sections - black and white.

I married an immigrant at a time when it was definitely frowned upon. Whilst many people were supportive we both suffered from extremely unpleasant comments (I remember being asked if my husband was also my pimp - somehow they had assumed because he was an immigrant only a prostitute would have married him). Members of the black community frequently told me that "my face didn't fit" in the area we lived in. Before we were married my husband's friends and some of his family told him he should find someone from his own community.

It is a mistake to believe that racism only works one way

Nightsky2 of course he is allowed an opinion what he isn't allowed to do is to consider that his life experiences have in some way given him an insight into racism, they haven't. And in dismissing the allegation completely he actually weakened his argument. All those who think he did a good thing should now watch what is happenig with the increase in far right thinking and worry about what he has actually done (and I accept he hasn't a clue about such things) to empower and justify the vile views of people like the EDL.

Oh don’t be so ridiculous GG it’s not about that as you well know - it’s about a self entitled stupid privileged prick thinking he can categorically state that something is not racist and shouting down a BAME woman. It was nothing to do with understanding, empathy or whatever. I doubt LF could even spell empathy let alone express it.

Jura2 I am perfectly aware that racism comes in a variety of forms. I am also aware that white privileged male/females are subject to racism also, but unfortunately it is taken with the proverbial pinch of salt.

What I would like to see is an equal society whereby people are just people, not the colour of their skin.

We have a wide circle of friends of all nationalities, and God willing we have many more years of fun and friendship ahead.

Enough is enough of what?

The problem is, Eloethan, is that this has all been swept under the carpet for too long. You can stop people expressing their feelings but you can't stop them having those feelings.
Now, it seems the tide is turning and we are at last being able to speak out, instead of being told to pretend there isn't a problem.

This will soon apply to other areas of society, we are saying 'enough is enough'.

Why do you feel the need to 'backlash' - what in your life has made you feel that way? Racism is not always 'obvious'.

Remember the interview with the latest Brexit party leader- who said there was no-one in the party who was 'very' racist?

I haven’t a clue jura2 why wouldn’t people feel differently about all sorts of things? No two lives are the same even for people brought up in the same family - William and Harry.

Are you suggesting that William is not as empathetic as Harry because he hasn’t given up his royal duties or because he married a white priveleged etc woman?

I believe you can be white, middle class educated and discriminated against, that it hasn’t happened to you makes you fortunate not entitled to rubbish someone else’s experience.

Yes, and in a way that would probably not have happened just a couple of years ago. Seems like it was boiling just below the surface, and is exploding out now in the current circumstances.

I know those who applaud Fox and despise the Guardian and all it stands for won't read it - but here is an excellent article

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/19/plain-speaking-culture-war-has-potential-to-turn-poisonous?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0x6lSaYZDYmjAFKg8R420C0XiiIvR5VrZWjUQYWPNQoHG9cUd4Pp8wojY#Echobox=1579425446

Galaxy LF has kicked off the conversation on "identity politics" also pointing out that not all comments on a person of a different colour are in deed "racism".

When someone is obviously racist then of course it should always be challenged, but in my own opinion "using the race card" and "political correctness" has become mainstream with the inevitability that a "backlash" would happen, sooner than later.

What a load of racists on here - they only need another racist to say what they are thinking and then they all pile in.

Pantglas2 ''But why do you feel that you (and Lily Allen of course) are the only white privileged etc person to have that empathy jura2?''

where on earth have I said that? It is clear from this thread that many do not. I know plenty who do, fortunately, and a few are also on this thread.

And yes, I do wonder - what makes you and others feel the way you do - and me and some others feel differently- in our background and experience, in 'life'. ? Honest question, and it really would interest me.

What has he achieved though. I actually think there are some things to be questioned about identity politics but he hasn't really done that has he. He has just put his head on a desk. Its not actually much of a discussion or a way to move forward. There are much more interesting people who are talking about this and asking relevant questions. He isn't one of them in my view.

GG13 ??

Actually I do wonder if now a few brave souls in the media have spoken out, the tide might be turning? He spoke a lot of sense and dared to say what a lot of people are no longer brave enough to voice.

I am not sure why people are chuntering about free speech. Lawrence Fox can say what he likes and did. I can say I dont agree with him. Free speech does not mean going unchallenged

Anniebach.

Not if you’re clashing with a Lecturer of mixed -israce from Edge Hill University. Rachel Boyle lectures on Race and Ethnicity. On MM ‘ Let’s be clear about this, let’s call it for what it is, it’s racism’.
So it’s ok for Boyle to say this and to accuse LF of being a ‘white privileged male’. Is he not allowed to have an opinion because he is a white middle class man.

I’m so glad he said it was not racism.

GrannyGravy13 that can only apply if you can show thatLF at any point shows any empathy or sympathy, he doesn't. He is discussing something with a woman who is an expert in the field. He shows no respect whatsoever. Can you imagine if this was done to someone else? If say he had told Brian Cox that he was wrong about some matter of astronomy?

I shall put out a reminder on our family WhatsAp to our AC who are predominantly male, definitely white and some would say privileged to remind them that they are not allowed to have empathy, sympathy or any views of their own on matters of "isms".

The one living in Kenya in particular will have to stay inside his home with curtains drawn and doors locked in case he interacts with any of the locals.

How come we’re seeing tweets referencing Piers Morgan on this thread? Is this insinuating the women on here are a) unable to compete with Meghan - obviously they can’t. I don’t think any negative opinion is down to jealousy.

Or

b) unable to compete with the author of the post? That also is obviously untrue. Who would be guilty of such hubris I wonder?

Ignoring the howls from the morally outraged, this is a most interesting thread. People are voicing opinions they wouldn't have dared to express a few months ago and generally, they are being discussed with tolerance.
Who would have thought, Laurence Fox!