Well done Lawrence Fox!

* I think he comes across as quite limited intellectually actually - a bit thick*
suziewoozie you seem to think anyone who disagrees with you is thick. Your condescending reply to Maddyone - nevermind it’s complicated. The inference being she’s also thick. It’s a form of bullying. I understand you’re frustrated that you aren’t making any headway. Maybe time to accept your arguments are flawed and not because others are too stupid to understand.

I think those who espouse to the White Supremesist narrative should firstly be forced to read at least the first few chapters of this book
^ The White Slaves of England by John C. Cobden^

www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/52423

Then they should read up on the Black Supremacists who sold their kin initially throughout the far and middle east and latterly into Europe.

They should read up on the Indian Maharajah’s and chinese Moguls part in the movement of people for financial gain.

Finally they should answer these relevant questions on UK population now.
Those who now like to cry racist:
Did their parents/grandparents come here if their own free will?
Has anyone ever prevented them from returning to their country of origin?
When their mother was pregnant with them, did they receive inferior treatment?
Have the been subjected to different levels of healthcare to the rest if the population.
At school were they segregated and taught a less comprehensive curriculum?
Are the prevented from attending university?
Are they prevented from observing their religion of choice?
The list could go on.

Everyone has prejudices and all cultures and religions express them, usually its the alpha male types that are the most expressive.

Those who sold slaves were bad, those who bought slaves were bad. But, the vast majority of the populations of all countries were themselves treated little, no better, and in some cases worse than owned slaves.

Isn't it not time that the racist/white suprematist virtue signalling was put to bed and we all just got on with existing.

I find Baroness Chakrabarti scary: she cuts people down in rather an arrogant way in debate I think. Lawrence Fox made a valid point but his attitude does come over as entitled and not a little arrogant too.

At first sight I though Lily Allen's tweet to LF was couched as if she were talking about herself but clearly she doesn't do irony. She might have least opened her ridicule with "from one luvie to another.".......and then followed that with "don't go down this road look how ridiculous I've become" Her Ivory Tower is so well fortified it seems that nothing can penetrate it

Who is Lily Allen ? Seems I am the only one who has never heard of her , thankfully.

Lily Allen is the ultimate luvvie who forces her opinion on everyone else. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! (or maybe the pot was racist?)

I also smiled at Lily Allen jumping in with her usual clodhoppers- has she know sense of awareness of how silly she sounds pontificating on his ‘white privelege’ given her own background and upbringing?

This argument has taken a new twist with the Actors Union Equity branding him a disgrace, although this has been since deleted due to complaints I believe.

Then Lily Allen of all people wades in saying 'Sick to death of luvvies like Lawrence Fox going on TV and forcing their opinions on everbody else....'
Oh the irony of that!

Opal totally agree

Trisher perhaps it would be helpful for you to read the transcript that I posted further up this thread where you will see that it was Rachel Boyle who shouted over Laurence Fox. A bit shallow to make a character assessment of someone based on a brief exchange on a debate programme.

There are many cases of discrimination against all ethnicities including white which are routinely ignored; witness the comment from Rotherham:
'the force was aware abuse "had been going on 30 years and the police could do nothing because of racial tensions".'

I remember seeing Laurence Fox on one of those reality/charity programmes, with his cousin, climbing a mountain with other actors/celebrities. I don't think they continued. I thought he was being really obnoxious to one of the other participants and I concluded then that he was a most rude and unpleasant man. I think he's a boring actor too and suspect he would never have got into acting had it not been for his family's high profile and contacts. In Wikipedia it is stated he was expelled from Harrow for repeatedly fighting and smoking, but has claimed he was discriminated against by the "toffs" because he didn't have a title. I'm pretty sure not every Harrow pupil is in possession of a title.

As for people making the bloody ridiculous comment that every group is protected against racism, except white people, where is the evidence to show that most white people are routinely discriminated against in, for instance, employment and housing? Many pieces of research have revealed there is significant discrimination against non-white people in virtually every area of public life.

Absolutely Opal (and I did watch the programme.)

I’m still saying Lawrence Fox was a victim of racism.

I think he comes across as quite limited intellectually actually - a bit thick

There we go, I knew it wouldn't take long for one of the usual crowd to claim the intellectual high ground over someone who doesn't share their views on racism. Intellectual snobbery strikes again!

He behaved exactly as the stereotypical privileged white male always has, shouting over a woman and refusing to listen to her. He then tried to make out that he was in some way a victim. It wasn't just wrong. it wasn't just rude, it was pathetic.

I obviously wasn't watching the same programme as you trisher - he did listen to her, he didn't shout, but as soon as he realised she was spouting the usual race card, he rightly gave a very quick and pertinent response. The audience seemed to agree with him! If anyone was wrong or rude, or, heaven forbid, racist, then it was the woman!

I wish there was a like button for your post trisha
He is still today, embracing the white, male, conservative, privelege

GrannyLaine you raised the issue of Fox's understanding. I simply gave an example of the racism in the UK which he apparently is unaware of. You actually said As Fox rightly stated 'I can't help what I am, I was born like this, it's an immutable characteristic! To imagine him incapable of understanding the troubles of others is simply blinkered thinking^
I can't help being white either but I do try to understand how society has made life difficult for others. LF made no attempt to appreciate or understand the point being made. He behaved exactly as the stereotypical privileged white male always has, shouting over a woman and refusing to listen to her. He then tried to make out that he was in some way a victim. It wasn't just wrong. it wasn't just rude, it was pathetic.

@trisher so now maybe he has some understanding but he used the wrong words to satisfy your strict criteria. Whose experiences aren't limited? And actually, he didn't insist this is the most 'understanding' country in Europe. And he was specifically answering a question about the Sussexes which is quite a different matter to Windrush.

suziewoozie that is not my point. More sweeping statements... and shooting off at tangents. I don't think any of us are in a position to comment on his intelligence. But I'm sure you will.

Well, yes, it was probably a 'racist' comment - but if it is the first and the worst- I think he will survive, don't you?

He, and you, and me, will never know what it fees like to be the wrong side of racism (well all sides are wrong), day in, day out...

I only know because there are many people in my life who have told me- and I trust them.

Maddy you’re wrong no matter how many times you say it. But never mind, I know it’s complicated ?

As I said previously, Lawrence Fox was most certainly a victim of a racist attack.

Well Granny I’d be delighted to consider any evidence that LF has any understanding or empathy re racism. Or maybe I missed him amongst those fighting for the rights of Windrush people. I think he comes across as quite limited intellectually actually - a bit thick

GrannyLine should LF have any understanding of the issues involved he might perhaps have moderated his language. His words indicate how out of touch he is. He didn't say "I don't believe it is racism" and discuss the matter logically he insisted "It's NOT racism" and when confronted with his origins and ethnicity he didn't admit that his experiences might be limited. He insisted this country was the most understanding in Europe. Now that may or may not be true, but I suspect for thousands of people who have come into conflict with the authorities and experienced institutionalised racism such as the Windrush families it isn't their experience. And that's why he is blinkered.

I'm staggered to read posts from those who fight to occupy the moral high ground claiming that Fox can have no idea of the struggles of others because he comes from an affluent background. A sweeping statement with no evidence to support it. It reminds me of an old chestnut I used to hear in my working life as a midwife. People would claim that to be a good midwife, you needed to have had a baby. Utter rubbish! What that calling actually requires is empathy, kindness and the ability to walk around in the shoes of others. As Fox rightly stated 'I can't help what I am, I was born like this, it's an immutable characteristic!^ To imagine him incapable of understanding the troubles of others is simply blinkered thinking.

Why don't we just judge people for what they are and forget all this racist/sexist nonsense. It is said that patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. I would suggest all these isms are the last resort of those otherwise devoid of reasoned argument.