Sajid now says 'no alignment post Brexit' ...

yes, because we already had very favourable terms, a large rebate, and the only member allowed to keep its own currency and not be part of Schengen.

And yet they sent David Cameron away with his tail between his legs ....
?

Our Government is in such a weak position - cards in, cards out. It is isolated and a very small cog in any of the wheels out there.

It had a powerful and strong representation at the top table in the EU ...

Obviously the government needs to keep their cards close to their chest, why give away our negotiating plan to the other players?

I suppose if keeping information and negotiating tactics close to the Government's chest 'smacks of dictatorship', perhaps we should put all our Government deliberations and secrets into the public domain and, in so doing, into the hands of 'the other side', whoever that might be. I don't think so. Other governments would think us naive and dangerous and would not share any information with us.

For better or worse, the electorate has elected a government and told them to get on with it, the best they can. It will not be easy to negotiate a sensible deal with the EU. It may be impossible but that would be in nobody's interest. With growth in the Eurozone projected to be even more anaemic than in the UK in 2020 and 2021, it would be sensible to end with a reasonable deal, even if it doesn't seem likely at times.

I think I am going to close my (small) business this year. It’s kept me afloat for over ten years but I do a lot of trade overseas (services) & as far as I can work out the paperwork to continue being paid is going to be considerable so not really worth it given the amount of money the business earns. Unless we get our own deals in place with Australia/USA etc during this year it just won’t be worth the hassle.

Clearly many of us don't feel at all happy about the government being kept secret from us. We consider this to be undemocratic. Perhaps even smacking of dictatorship.

I wonder what Leavers feel about the clear intention of the government to keep as much from the public as they possibly can?

Bully boy tactics.

According to an article in the Guardian today members of the Cabinet are being told to keep off TV etc and concentrate on their jobs. They are also being marked out of 10 prior to a reshuffle. They do not want the public finding out what is going on before they need to know. I think No.10s grip being tightened, they are going to control what info the media gets. I still expect to see the country crash out later in the year.

Promise after promise, on the way we would leave, has been broken - and we will now leave with 'No alignment' = massively reduced export opportunities and ensuing job losses. And probably, at the very last minute, with No Deal- as is becoming increasingly apparent with behind the scenes shenanigans of the highest order.

We are leaving- but we still do NOT know if we will leave with a Deal - or if the ERG and now Johnson (remember he was a Remainer and gave all the good and right arguments- as did Sajid at the time) - get what they really really always wanted No Deal- because that is what will make them and the few very rich- even though it will make the poorest poorer.

Like Grandad1943, I will wait and see. When I voted Leave a second time, it was a choice between a rock and a hard place. I did not dismiss Project Fear out of hand, recognising that it would be a bumpy road, as it was for some when we joined the EU. I am encouraged that the prophets of immediate doom have proved false but only time will tell how it ultimately turns out. It does sadden me where people seem to hope for the worst to be proved right. We should all hope for the best whatever our fears may be.

The reason I voted Leave in 2016 was basically the same as in 1975. I did not believe a future United States of Europe would work well and membership would have its own share of risks, politically and economically. The Eurozone certainly has its full share of risks, with the single currency failing to live up to the exaggerated economic claims made for it 20 years ago. Our failure to join, it was said by its fans, would leave us trailing behind the growth of the Eurozone while its divergent economies would converge. The truth is that its creation was to create the nucleus of a monetary, economic and political union from which there is no way back. Judged purely on that criterion, it has been a success.

For 40 years, as a Eurosceptic, I have listened to those who understand the EU project and I remain unconvinced. I do believe that, had we voted to Remain in 2016, we and those that follow would have been locked into a future United States of Europe, perhaps with about as much say as the Scottish Nationalists now feel they have in the UK.

In 1975, there was a one hour ITV debate (now on youtube) between Michael Foot and Edward Heath, solely devoted to the question of sovereignty. It is worth watching whether you believe (like Heath) that sovereignty is trade-able for influence within the EU or Foot took the opposite view. This well-conducted debate between 2 senior politicians, sadly something we no longer see very often.

There can be no doubt that being Brexitiers they knew exactly what they were voting for, and that's democracy.

I actually don't think this is a joke. The Brexit voters did know what they were voting for - they kept telling us they did. It is also true that, as a country, we will survive. Some businesses will go under and some will lose their jobs and we may also find the standards of what we buy drop but I don't think we could have been told more plainly that the Brexiteers disregarded this. Some did make half-hearted attempts to say "nothing will change" but, in truth, they just wanted to "win".

They did not care if we either isolate ourselves, some don't want any agreed rules and arrangements which means, therefore, no trade deals, some, on the other hand, don't mind rules as long as it's with the USA and no one else. It was never, for them, a question of right or wrong but just of win or lose.

We shall see. Not everyone will be affected but whatever effect it has this is exactly what they voted for.

yes, how very British

There can be no doubt that being Brexitiers they knew exactly what they were voting for, and that's democracy.

I love your sense of humour, Grandad

Yet more evidence of Government Self Harm - what a mess!

Whatever kind of Brexit we get will be worse than no Brexit.

I hope it won't be as bad as I fear but if it is there will be riots such as we have not seen for generations when the populace finally realises how they have been duped.

twitter.com/i/status/1155808844024602624

we still have no idea what kind of Brexit we will have - although we know it is not what he promised. I don't think even his staunchiest supporters will deny he is the worst liar ...

Thank you!

jura2, we can only wait to witness in two to three years time how much damage has been done to the British economy, or if any damage has been done at all.

I feel that the first of the above will be the most likely outcome, but that is what the Electorate voted for in December, and Britain is ruled by democratic government.

So, what will be, will be.

@mac123_m
In France a neoliberal president is chased by their people. In our country we vote for actual right wing fascists. Sickening......Vive le France!

twitter.com/mac123_m/status/1218608618066644993?s=20

@thepileus

Last night Macron had to be escorted out of a Theatre’s service door due to having to run away from protests against him

The Govt of France is scared of its people. Just wish that was the case in the UK

Yes- but how much irreparable damage in the meantime

But the above is what the majority in Britain voted for in electing a Boris Johnson led Tory government on a Brexit ticket.

There can be no doubt that being Brexitiers they knew exactly what they were voting for, and that's democracy.

In reality, we will see in two or three years time if Brexit is seen as a success or if the British electorate is desperately regretting what they wished to happen.

All will be revealed in the fullness of time?

Indeed - it will mean many businesses and farming, truly struggling and probably go down-, or move abroad- with all the job losses and price increases entailed. We will then have to import even more from abroad, be it good quality from EU, or cheap from USA, China, etc.

Just how is leaving the EU going to benefit me? Anyone?

It works. Thanks, jura.

One thing this could mean is that UK companies that wish to continue trading with EU countries will continue to produce to EU standards but, if we accept lower standards ( and therefore cheaper goods) from non EU countries for the same product they will not be able to compete in the domestic market. This will, of course, be in addition to their increased costs in complying with the non tariff barriers they will encounter when we leave the Single Market. I should point out that they will encounter these even if we stayed closed aligned to EU standards because we will no longer be part of the Single Market. Massive increases in paperwork... on that point I thought that leaving the EU was going to reduce 'red tape', not increase it.