Poverty in the UK - disappearing according to Boris

I can understand the reasoning behind LHA but it's easy enough to find out what kind of property people are living in. Too many inflexible rules in the system.

I agree with you grandtante. Last week, I bought a piece of fresh salmon from the newly opened fishmonger in town. It cost me about as much as I usually spend on two days' food. I hope the Benefit Police weren't spying on me (not that I can claim any benefits anyway).

The idea is to stop people living in (allegedly) luxurious accommodation and getting the state to pay for it. When LHA was introduced there were loads of stories in the press about people living in very expensive properties in London and claiming Housing Benefit.

The Local Housing Allowance rate is different for each area and is supposed to cover 30% of the properties in an area, but it doesn't and has been frozen for years. There is no way I could even find a room in a house share for the LHA in my area.

I have a friend who works for the CAB and she has told me that rents are the biggest cause of poverty in this area. Unemployment is way below the national average, so most people in difficulty are working. Many are facing eviction and the "hidden homelessness" rate (ie people sleeping on sofas and the like) is very high. It's a form of social cleansing because people on low incomes find work and accommodation elsewhere, if they possibly can. It's a vicious circle because the area is becoming increasingly gentrified.

That seems a ridiculous rule Growstuff. I can't see the logic behind it.

There are different degrees of poverty, but surely anyone who cannot get work and has to live on social security is poor, as are all those who have to use food banks?

If people on low incomes chose to smoke, eat ice cream or have a drink that is up to them. Being poor must never mean that you cannot treat yourself to something occasionally, nor must it ever come to mean that other people decide how you may live your life.

It is short-sighted to equate a good income with someone having worked hard at school, gone on to further education.

Many of us who did so never managed to get a well-paid job.

But they are believed. So dangerous.

They are just stories Maizie. Nobody has ever been able to explain how these people living a life of luxury on benefits manage it.

Just a reminder about 'benefit fraud'

An elderly article, but still relevant

www.cas.org.uk/features/myth-busting-real-figures-benefit-fraud

This is a bit more up to date, but doesn't mention the far larger sums involved in tax fraud:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39980793

I'm always amazed at the stories of claimants living the high life on benefits when people's real, lived experience, shows what a struggle it is 'on benefits' to just cover the necessities.

I agree with you, which is why I'm giving actual figures. Maybe a few people will see for themselves that the headlines don't tell anything like the full story.

My situation is replicated many times, which is why people are forced into zero hours/low paid work and grab what they can. For the government, it's a double whammy because it saves the Treasury money and they can claim that unemployment has gone down.

Which is what happens to many people, of course, growstuff.

I think that benefits are a bit like education. When people excoriate teachers and education they are often looking a long way back (the 70s or thereabouts) and believing that is how education or jobs are now. I think the same happens with benefits. The lack of a view about how it currently works really does make for some crass comments.

I actually try to live on £73 + rent + council tax every week, but I rarely manage it. If I didn't work and have a small amount of savings, I'd be in permanent debt and paying interest on the debt, so getting further and further into trouble.

GracesGran I think the poor have been demonised forever. That's not surprising because the "haves" have a vested interest in claiming that they deserve what they have, but those with less don't deserve it. The media is mainly controlled by "haves" so regularly drip news about the "undeserving" (and there are a few).

It's amazing that some people in receipt of benefits claim that they deserve them because of xyz and say they feel guilty about accepting them, but don't appear to consider that others might be equally deserving and also feel stigmatised for claiming benefits.

No, they won't annep1. My rent is over the Local Housing Allowance for my area. The LHA is £581.07. If I had no income at all and claimed UC, the government would pay that amount and no more. That means I would have to find the difference (£243.93) out of my own resources. If I were to apply for UC, I wouldn't receive anything for "living" (food, utility bills) because I already receive more than £73pw from occupational pensions. 0 minus £243.93 = -£243.93. Therefore, I am forced to work, which means that I'm not eligible for UC. Hope that makes sense. I've played around with benefit calculators for hours and there is no solution.

I wish people actually understood how the benefit system actually works, when they bleat on about "work always paying" and people on benefits being feckless and lazy. Boris Johnson obviously doesn't and I'm afraid to say I don't think most Labour MPs do either. For example, raising the minimum wage means a reduction in UC and means the self-employed are even less likely to be eligible.

I have never heard any politician mention Local Housing Allowance, which, for those who have first hand experience of benefits, is one of the main reasons for poverty.

I don't think anyone thought of you as "Lady of the Manor" LadyMuck. I certainly didn't.

What I despise in some of the posts we see is the level of generalised judgement we see of people whose circumstances are at best guessed at and, if we are honest, are actually unknown.

These posters need to be told just as those without the nouse to understand about hidden health conditions has meant we now have to come down to their level with a notice on disabled loos saying "Not every disability is visible". Equally, not everyone's source of income or their way of spending it is visible unless you happen to have a PoA for that person.

A while ago I was asking myself how people get to be so judgemental. I realised it's education, in one way or another, that teaches us so perhaps every thread that could turn into the equivalent of throwing of rotten tomatoes so people can make themselves feel superior should be prefaced by a notice saying. "Not everyone who needs help from the state has obvious needs and nor are they non-deserving because you cannot see past what is on the outside". Or something.

www.facebook.com/crohnsandcolitisuk/videos/318103215773490/?v=318103215773490

So why were you so disparaging of those claiming benefits ladymuck?

A few little points. I dont have much energy for long replies due to M.E. (although according to ATOS nothing wrong. Just wish could have blue badge). So I can't say all I would like to. But this isn't about me.

Some very sad stories here with no easy answers. I feel so annoyed for everyone. And angry with our government. So many people living with such difficulties.

Growstuff your rent is over the maximum. Will the government not pay any of it?
I do think it would be better if cases were considered individually instead of sticking to rules.

The system is unfair. I know people who didn't work or work for long who get pension credit and it makes my small work pension practically worthless. Unfair indeed. Doesn't bother me personally. I have more than enough. But no wonder some folk don't worry about providing for retirement. Who could blame them?

And I think that not selling off council properties would be a help. Thatcher should never have introduced this.

Experience of UC - AC never paid on time and always wrong amount. If didn't have me would have been forced to a foodbank. Its a nightmare for claimants and if you haven't a computer even worse.

If everything is so much better why is use of foodbanks increasing . Very few would willingly use them.

Sad times for many. And will get worse imo.

You're probably right. I'm just a bit paranoid about filling in forms, in case Big Brother comes along and tells me I've got it wrong and fines me. My income comes from a number of different sources and I keep a record of my expenses. I started doing it before Christmas. Ironically, I hardly owe any tax anyway, but I would be fined if I didn't submit the return by the deadline.

There are online websites, which guide people through the forms they need to fill in, although it does depend on people being internet savvy.

I have a low income health charge exemption, which needed more "proof" of income and savings than my tax return does.

I always felt the tax form was there. I needed the figures to fill it in but I didn't have to go hunting for which forms applied to me etc.

Obviously, the stress of having enough to live on would not help and neither does the threat hanging over you of punishment for making an honest mistake. I understand the idea of UC but I think they would have spent their time better using the current software to show what tax you pay or what credit you get.

Also, there are two bodies for tax and income. The council and the government. I do feel they could amalgamate the collection of information even if each of them had to send out their own bills. Once should be enough to fill in forms. And there are also two parts of the system. Income-related benefits and non-income-related benefits. I don't think there is a tax equivalent of proving you need overnight care, etc. I have found it very complex and, as I have mentioned in the past, ended up telling those who should know, about a benefit that related to my mother's condition. It shouldn't be that difficult.

I've struggled with illness all my adult life and could only manage part-time work, so haven't paid much into the system. I'm very grateful that women like me are able to claim benefits . I have enough for the basic necessities with no luxuries, but I'm thankful for every penny and give any surplus to charity.

I honestly thought I'd be living in a tent somewhere!

This might seem at odds with my initial post, which seems to have given the impression that I was lady of the manor, whereas in fact, I'm one of the peasants!
Just shows how people make assumptions!

Having submitted my self-employed tax return this morning, I'm not so sure I agree with you GracesGran . I think the difference is that I don't have to worry about not being able to afford food, if I make a mistake on my tax return (and I have a few days to get it right).

Thank you so much etheltbags for your post showing just how "life" can happen to anyone.

I would add that as well as the actual issues people have to deal with the stress of working out what you can apply for and the appalling systems involved are well beyond 'in-work' or 'filling out your tax form' stress. The system so often does more harm than good.

Sorry typo! I can't see very well either now it seems!

I was born in Feb 1962 so am shortly to be 58 .... so will be invited at some point to apply for PIP - although I am obviously one of the last to be done and I did wonder if that was because I was on indefinite DLA or my age?

The reason I asked Made in Yorkshire the question if she was 65 before 2013 Growstuff is for benefit purposes and changes with PIP.

If a person was 65 and in receipt of DLA mid or high Care and given it indefinitely then they would continue on DLA and not be referred to PIP. If they were in receipt of DLA mobility that would still be kept for the length of their claim.

I asked MIY this because I think from a previous post she said she was 57 but I could not understand whether that was her or her mother!

Oldgimmer1
The people who have a mortgage and were given social housing.

I am assuming they were over 55? Your Council May have an abundance of over 55 accom. They would let the property rather than have it empty. As long as the people could afford the rent. The problem would occur, and fraud would be committed if the people claimed HA whilst owing a property. You can do so for the first 26weeks whilst the same is going through after it has gone through, obviously they can afford to pay rent.

I agree Coolio. 77 in a previous post. Baffled.