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The man is mad!

(153 Posts)
Fennel Sun 09-Feb-20 17:48:41

I don't enjoy entering the news and politics forums, but this news item shocked me:
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7982525/Boris-Johnson-revives-20billion-plan-bridge-Scotland-Northern-Ireland.html
Especially today with the threat to bridges like the current storm.

J52 Sun 09-Feb-20 18:13:16

They’d be better spending money on repairing the huge pot holes on the A75. Mostly caused by heavy good lorries coming from Stranraer to the M6.

phoenix Sun 09-Feb-20 18:13:36

Positively Dagenham, just one stop short of Barking.

paddyanne Sun 09-Feb-20 19:08:35

is this part of his plan to woo us back to the "union" that isn't a union at all.I hear he's having adverts in cinemas as a sweetener telling us how wonderful Westminster is and how good it is to Scotland...lol.Someone should explain to him we can see the ignorance and derision our MP's are treated with on a daily basis and all the cinema ads in the world won't make a shred of difference.He really is deluded

Nandalot Sun 09-Feb-20 19:08:50

Vanity project.

Barmeyoldbat Sun 09-Feb-20 19:37:15

So what happens if Scotland goes it alone and even if Ireland became united? As its been said, a vanity project and I believe he didn't finish some bridge in London.

Urmstongran Sun 09-Feb-20 19:38:34

China has a bridge (or two) twice as long. Denmark has one linking x with y. Sorry can’t recall the area.

Is it planning for the future? Speculate to accumulate? Cuts down air traffic. Less pollution.

Yes it’s a huge project. Early planning stages. Will big business be involved with finding? Time will tell.

boat Sun 09-Feb-20 19:41:09

He makes me think of Caligula the mad Roman emperor.

varian Sun 09-Feb-20 19:45:27

Instead of spending billions on another vanity project, why doesn't he just try go repair some of the damage that his party has inflicted on our country?

growstuff Sun 09-Feb-20 19:49:48

Absolutely bonkers! Hopefully it won't be too long before the whole idea is consigned to his discarded list of vanity projects.

growstuff Sun 09-Feb-20 19:51:19

So how does all the road traffic get to the west coast of Scotland to the end of the bridge?

SirChenjin Sun 09-Feb-20 20:33:04

Apparently it’s technically feasible, but the 20billion is a ‘conservative estimate’ according to a BBC article. I wonder how many years it would take to build such a bridge? The man is an idiot if he honestly thinks £20billion plus couldn’t be better spent.

MaizieD Sun 09-Feb-20 20:34:24

There'll still be border checks whether goods cross to NI by bridge or ferry.

SirChenjin Sun 09-Feb-20 20:36:08

I wonder if the engineers will be required to install bumps along the bridge road? grin It would laughable if it wasn’t so tragic.

FlexibleFriend Sun 09-Feb-20 20:50:46

I don't think it's nuts, why is it ok for others but not the Uk. It's ambitious and will cost far more than estimated but that doesn't make it daft.

Oopsminty Sun 09-Feb-20 20:52:29

I remember my father saying how mad they were to consider building a tunnel under the Channel

SirChenjin Sun 09-Feb-20 21:02:41

Yes it’s nuts because of a)the cost, b)because as Maizie rightly says, it won’t stop checks, c)because it’s technically incredibly difficult to navigate the depth and the munitions, d) because it would have to close regularly in the bad weather and e) because it crosses an incredibly busy shopping lane.

SirChenjin Sun 09-Feb-20 21:02:52

Or shipping even!

annodomini Sun 09-Feb-20 21:12:42

When he last mentioned this scheme, it was pointed out that a lot of unexploded stuff from WW2, had been dumped in the channel that separates Scotland from Northern Ireland. Think of the infrastructure that would have to be put in for the construction of such a bridge and for the roads on either side. This is one of Boris's vanity projects as was his 'garden bridge'.

Nezumi65 Sun 09-Feb-20 21:21:40

That area of the sea has been used as a weapons dump for years.

Think I’ll stick to Stena line - it’s not exactly a long crossing

Nezumi65 Sun 09-Feb-20 21:22:25

Oh whoops anno - only saw your post after pressing post

SirChenjin Sun 09-Feb-20 21:46:17

I don’t think I’d like to drive over a bridge that length - what if there was an accident around the middle - can you imagine getting the emergency services on site?

Hetty58 Sun 09-Feb-20 21:51:22

I like the idea of a tunnel - why not?

growstuff Sun 09-Feb-20 21:58:49

Even the QE2 bridge over the Thames estuary has been closed this afternoon.

growstuff Sun 09-Feb-20 22:02:14

It might not be too bad if the country were awash with money. We've just had 10 years of austerity and existing infrastructure is crumbling. I'm not very impressed at the idea of any savings being "spaffed" on a vanity project bridge (if there's any change left after HS2).

I must be imagining that people were complaining that Labour's election manifesto was unaffordable. hmm

growstuff Sun 09-Feb-20 22:03:48

How about a decent rail service from Liverpool to the North East via Manchester and Leeds?

Or …?

Or …?

Yehbutnobut Sun 09-Feb-20 22:35:52

Yes, OP. I agree, he’s a butty short of a picnic.

Yehbutnobut Sun 09-Feb-20 22:37:11

Some secondary schools are running courses for students on resilience. Excellent idea. Give them the tools to help themselves.

Callistemon Sun 09-Feb-20 22:40:16

Will there be a toll?

The bridge from England to Wales was 1,600 metres and the toll for a car was £5.60, HGV lorries were £16.70.

At that rate, multiplied proportionately, would anyone use it?

Yehbutnobut Mon 10-Feb-20 07:50:34

Oops posted on wrong thread

vegansrock Mon 10-Feb-20 08:08:16

I think it’s another one of his “let’s divert attention from real problems” ideas. Sinn Fein now becoming a real political force, whilst NI and Scotland distancing themselves from Westminster because of him, he now is trying to build bridges. I’d like this government to stop ripping up trees which act as natural flood defences, for building HS2 and the like, and a proper cleaning up of our rivers and waterways so they don’t burst their banks at every storm.

craftergran Mon 10-Feb-20 08:19:24

We don't have tolls on bridges in Scotland, so the toll question will be interesting... if the bridge ever gets built.

craftergran Mon 10-Feb-20 08:29:10

I think he would be better served re-building all the old rail links that we used to have. Large parts of northern England have no rail links.

Also social housing throughout UK is more of a dire need.

And is there a road without potholes anywhere?

Granny23 Mon 10-Feb-20 08:36:37

Not to mention that the nuclear subs pass up the channel on their way to Faslane. No oil exploration has been permitted in the area because of these hazards. Also as mentioned above the A75 is one of the worst roads in Scotland.

trisher Mon 10-Feb-20 15:20:28

Let's face it Boris has always been purely interested in Boris. He's looking for something he will be remembered for. Probably sees it as being called "Boris's Bridge.

SirChenjin Mon 10-Feb-20 15:29:37

Boris’s Brexit Bridge - I can just see it now. A good diversion from the bumps in the road that are coming hmm

soop Mon 10-Feb-20 15:39:10

Message to Boris...get the dratted potholes throughout Scotland - Kintyre in particular, fixed. Our car has been in and out of the garage with major suspension issues for months on end. The problem has cost us a small fortune.

annodomini Mon 10-Feb-20 15:45:49

Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, will be spent on a feasibility study, only for it to be rejected on grounds of expense and inconvenience.

SirChenjin Mon 10-Feb-20 15:47:48

Yep. Perhaps he’s thinking BIGLY of ways he can spend this £350 million/week that’s coming his way.

Eloethan Mon 10-Feb-20 16:25:37

Yet another one of BJ's vanity projects. Given that much of our infrastructure is badly maintained and, in some areas, woefully inadequate, I would have thought a bridge from Scotland to Ireland was surplus to requirements.

Quite apart from our transport infrastructure, there are many serious shortfalls in public services that need addressing urgently - there is a crisis in the justice system and social care, to name but two.

Scribbles Mon 10-Feb-20 16:34:33

Maybe the bridge engineers could put in a little gentle practice by repairing Hammersmith Bridge, just to keep their skills up to scratch?

MaizieD Mon 10-Feb-20 16:34:36

Perhaps he’s thinking BIGLY of ways he can spend this £350 million/week that’s coming his way.

Hang on, SirChenjin, that's earmarked for the NHS isn't it?

SirChenjin Mon 10-Feb-20 16:53:00

You are quite right Maizie - how could I forget! It must be coming from other Things because, y’know, Reasons.

maddyone Mon 10-Feb-20 17:01:29

Oh yes SirChenin, just imagine driving across it during the high winds we’ve just had this weekend. Or as you say, what if there was an accident. I hope it will be built with a hard shoulder unlike these appalling smart motorways that are anything but smart. That is, if it’s ever built at all.

suziewoozie Mon 10-Feb-20 17:08:12

Is it really even technically feasible - technically theoretically feasible maybe. But either way it’s a huge dead cat - but all the feasibility, scoping plans etc will be a nice little earner for some- like the Garden Bridge. He must go home at night and collapse in giggles at his latest huge wheeze and how it stops people discussing really important issues.

MaizieD Mon 10-Feb-20 17:17:23

Well, Ug says the Chinese can do it. Do they have to clear thousands of tons of munitions and nuclear waste first?

And ensure safe passage for nuclear submarines (though if Scotland gets its independence that won't be a problem because they're going to chuck them out, aren't they?)

SirChenjin Mon 10-Feb-20 17:25:14

Oh come on Maizie - how hard can it actually be? Positive thoughts now, Miss Negative Nancy! After all, Boris is in charge, what can possibly go wrong?

Oh, wait...

Fennel Mon 10-Feb-20 17:29:35

Yes, SirChenjin, he's just trying to build bridges ....
between parts of London with the garden bridge, between Scotland and Ulster, between the rich and the poor -
No, not that far.

Dinahmo Mon 10-Feb-20 17:57:22

According to a prime minister's spokesman" the pm is ambitious in terms of infrastructure projects. He's looking at a wide range of schemes across the country which could boost connectivity"

Apparently he's hoping to pacify the DUP with his talk of a bridge.

Apparently DC is opposed to HS2 and for once I agree with him. I really cannot understand why it's necessary for people to travel to Birmingham with 20 minutes knocked off their journey time. It must be better for transport links from east to west to be improved and also the commuter lines in and out of the major northern cities.

suziewoozie Mon 10-Feb-20 18:20:55

There is no comparable bridge anywhere in the world to what is dreamed of here. No one else would be do daft

SirChenjin Mon 10-Feb-20 18:28:31

Many might say daft, that is true...Boris says ‘putting the Great back into Britain!’ (and any other meaningless soundbite you can think of)

varian Mon 10-Feb-20 18:37:14

The bridge between Hong Kong and Macau is 34 miles long.

That does not mean we should try to compete by building a shorter bridge from Scotland to NI.

The UK economy is in dire straits. We need to spend taxpayers money on homes, schools, hospitals and public transport, not BJ vanity projects no more justifiable than his garden bridge.

Urmstongran Mon 10-Feb-20 18:54:50

Well, Ug says the Chinese can do it

And this afternoon on Sky News a woman (didn’t catch her name) Professor of Engineering from Warwick University was enthusiastic MaizieD.

MaizieD Mon 10-Feb-20 18:57:37

This is what is in the area

The survey is likely to confirm what British Gas discovered by accident: that many of the munitions meant for Beaufort’s Dyke never got there. Instead, they were dumped in shallow waters en route to the dyke by ships from Stranraer and Cumbria. Two seamen from Stranraer who sailed on dumping expeditions in the 1940s, John Balfour and Alfie Shingleston, have said that in poor weather, the ships discharged their cargoes no more than a few hundred metres off shore. “There is credible evidence that a significant amount of material never made it to the site,” says one scientist from the Marine Laboratory. He believes that munitions ended up in unauthorised dumps to the north and south of the dyke and possibly in the Solway Firth. “Out of sight, out of mind was the prime criterion at the time,” he says.

According to a letter sent by the MoD in June to researchers at the University of Liverpool, the MoD dispatched vast amounts of old weapons to Beaufort’s Dyke. The ministry dumped some 14,000 tons of 5-inch artillery rockets filled with poisonous phosgene gas in the trench between July and October 1945. Over the following three years, it consigned 135,000 tons of conventional munitions there, and every year “into the late 1950s” another 20,000 tons ended up in the dyke.

Read more: www.newscientist.com/article/mg14820042-200-the-ww2-bombs-dumped-off-western-scotland-washing-up-on-beaches/#ixzz6DZx5J0T1

www.newscientist.com/article/mg14820042-200-the-ww2-bombs-dumped-off-western-scotland-washing-up-on-beaches/

Still want a bridge?

Of course, the Liar-in-Chief will no doubt say that there's nothing at all harmful there...

SirChenjin Mon 10-Feb-20 19:17:59

You can hear Professor Wanda Lewis here. Enthusiastic isn’t quite the word I’d use but perhaps that’s because she understands what’s involved from a cost and technical pov although I guess she’s probably thinking that if Boris is mad enough to
want to spend billions on a new bridge she might as well sound positive - there could be a job in it for her! m.youtube.com/watch?v=0DAh_9RFjBg

Callistemon Mon 10-Feb-20 19:24:56

The Severn Bridge today. Closed until further notice because a lorry blew over.

SirChenjin Mon 10-Feb-20 19:26:50

shock

It must be catching - DH is stuck at work as the Queensferry Crossing (aka the new Forth Road Bridge) is closed. He now faces a long circuitous route home and that bridge is what , 2 miles long?

MaizieD Mon 10-Feb-20 20:08:14

They should have built a tunnel! It was suggested, wasn't it, SirChenjin?

SirChenjin Mon 10-Feb-20 20:32:23

It was Maizie!

Iam64 Mon 10-Feb-20 20:54:21

I was shouting at the radio - again -when I heard this proposal. I live under 50miles from Liverpool, it used to take just over an hour but now takes two hours to drive there. I can't go by train unless I either change at Wigan, or go into Manchester where I can get a direct train to Liverpool. Getting into Manchester at rush hour (7 - 10 am) is fraught with difficulty. Not enough carriages, often full long before it arrives in our town.
We may get HS thing to cut 10 minutes of the 3 hour train journey to London - but we can't travel around the north west or north east without paying a small fortune for services that are unreliable.
And Mr Johnson is considering a Boris Bridge. By all means build the bliddy bridge but sort out transport close to home first

J52 Mon 10-Feb-20 21:03:25

When the A75 is blocked, often by an accident involving a lorry, the only diversions are very long through rural roads.
Not only is the A75 not fit for current commercial traffic, as it goes through villages, but increased traffic to Portpatrick would necessitate upgrading the road to a dual carriageway.

suziewoozie Mon 10-Feb-20 21:14:33

varian the actual length of the bridge is only one issue and in the case of Boris’ mad idea, the least relevant.

varian Tue 11-Feb-20 07:50:45

I agree. The whole idea is utter nonsense,

travelsafar Tue 11-Feb-20 08:03:48

Boris just wants to be remembered for Brexit, Bridges and Bloody Railways!!!!! Surely people would be behind him 100% and he would be better remembered for sorting out the care system, NHS, Universal Credits and a solution to how to deal long term with terrorists in our prisons. All this money being proposed to improve transport, why? Is it so people can move from London to nicer parts of the country and still travel back to London to work and earn high salaries while putting up house prices in the North and Midlands?? Our little Garden City Town is being destroyed by having lots of 1 and 2 bedroom flats being built in all sorts of places in our town centre. They are costing 1/4 of a million pouunds. Local people can not buy them, too expensive but people from London can or those who work in the city and they have a 30min journey back into the city to work!!!!

Nezumi65 Tue 11-Feb-20 08:16:39

I’m sure it’s just a distraction so we’re talking about this, rather than the announcements being made about Brexit and business or people being illegally deported.

Either that or he is a complete megalomaniac with a soviet style obsession with monuments (Boris bridges, Boris bus’, Boris Island - I don’t know why he doesn’t just commission a sculpture of himself in Trafalgar Square

Nezumi65 Tue 11-Feb-20 08:16:59

*buses

growstuff Tue 11-Feb-20 08:20:34

Don't forget the Boris Bikes!

Nezumi65 Tue 11-Feb-20 08:56:11

Oh yes! Nothing that begins with a B is safe. We’ll have the Great British Boris Breakfast next.

Devorgilla Tue 11-Feb-20 09:30:00

Given the recent results in the Irish election, perhaps it would be prudent to wait to see the political fallout from that before considering building a bridge between the mainland and what could become a united Ireland, and therefore a foreign country. Patience is not one of JB's strong points I think.

Callistemon Tue 11-Feb-20 09:30:23

Severn Bridge is still Blocked

MaizieD Tue 11-Feb-20 19:40:21

The thoughts of a retired engineer:

Devorgilla Tue 11-Feb-20 21:06:18

How right your friend is MaizieD. I came across that stretch one Easter in a force 10 gale. Sunshine in the North in the 80s earlier in the week turned rapidly to heavy snow storms on way back to Scotland. Even hardened lorry drivers were throwing up. Doing the journey in a sardine can, commonly known as a car, exposed to the elements, definitely not my idea of fun. Shelve it Boris. It's not a runner.

growstuff Tue 11-Feb-20 21:25:00

A zip wire would be cheaper.

Fennel Wed 12-Feb-20 11:47:44

[grin} - another example of him trying to span different sides.
Though I don't think he really has the heart for that.
What if he'd fallen off? hmm

Alexa Wed 12-Feb-20 11:53:36

Not gloriously mad but just a superficially charming man who wants personal power more than he is capable of wielding.

Cunco Wed 12-Feb-20 12:33:42

I tend to agree with those who think a bridge will not be built and that there are better ways to spend £20bn; but, at this stage, it is just an idea that is being considered. Boris may be bonkers but he would not be alone in considering the idea. Professor Alan Dunlop of Liverpool University supports the project; and, last year, it was thought worthy of consideration by Irish Premier Leo Varadkar if, of course, the UK paid for the project. One wonders what impact the curent shift in politics in Ireland will have on attitudes by both sides to the building of a bridge. It wouldn't be the longest bridge in the world. According to the BBC, 'that honour goes, according to Guinness World Records, to the Hong Kong-Zhuhai-Macau bridge which has 48.3km (about 30 miles) of its span over water'. I don't imagine that stretch of sea is immune from tempests.

growstuff Wed 12-Feb-20 21:46:44

I don't think Johnson is bonkers. He (and his chief advisor) know perfectly well that discussion about the bridge will distract from what his government is doing to really affect people's lives.

When things go wrong, people just shrug their shoulders and say stuff like "Ah well! That was Boris just being a clown". They don't take him seriously. Unfortunately, he's deadly serious - or, at least, the people he's chosen to appoint are deadly serious and he's appointed the spin doctors to make sure that the "public" supports him. All he cares about is that he stays in power. It's a carefully manufactured image.

The people who voted for him must not take their eyes off the ball. Whatever tricks he tries, they need to judge him against their long-term and sustainable expectations. If he doesn't deliver what they were hoping for, they must vote him out at the next election.

MaizieD Thu 13-Feb-20 09:49:11

Did you read the letter from the offshore engineer that I posted, Cunco?

Callistemon Thu 13-Feb-20 10:05:18

Cunco Professor Dunlop's design for the bridge was featured in The Architects' Journal, I remember seeing it.

Devorgilla Thu 13-Feb-20 10:39:48

grow stuff, a good post and I agree. Boris wants power and he will throw just enough crumbs from the table to satisfy people for a while - in my view until he gets another five years. Then he will find a reason to step down leaving others to clear up the mess. I've worked with loads of 'whiz kids' like that. Full of ideas which work short term rather than long term and who then got themselves promoted out of it. Oh well, we have to have something to occupy us now Brexit is 'done', so Boris Watch it is.

Dinahmo Thu 13-Feb-20 11:34:21

There is a proposal to create two dams across the North Sea (Norway to Scotland) and the English Channel (Cornwall to France) to control higher sea levels which will result from the melting of the polar ice caps. This seems to me to be a much better idea than Johnson's bridge across the Irish Sea.

Fennel Thu 13-Feb-20 11:36:34

Yes, very good post*growstuff*.
This thread has made me re-think, but I don't want to face the political future here.
sad

growstuff Thu 13-Feb-20 11:43:37

The honeymoon will be over one day. People need to ask themselves whether the government has really made any difference to the very real problems this country is facing, such as housing, the NHS, social care, neglected former manufacturing towns, etc etc.

suziewoozie Thu 13-Feb-20 11:47:41

grow the honeymoon is far from over for DT so I doubt it will be for BJ.

growstuff Thu 13-Feb-20 11:53:54

It depends on who becomes Labour leader.

In the US, the Democrats aren't doing a very good job of finding a realistic leader. I fear that Labour could go down that road.

I think we're going to see a realignment of political party loyalties.

IMO

growstuff Thu 13-Feb-20 12:00:25

Sajid Javid has resigned because he refused to sack all his advisers. Interesting! hmm

Grammaretto Thu 13-Feb-20 12:11:49

Wasn't it Boris who wanted a new airport in the Thames estuary/Isle of dogs?

A bridge to Ireland is not feasible in my lifetime but who knows what they are capable of . Doesn't seem like a priority to me.

On the other hand, the drive home from Cairnryan recently was awful. That road needs some serious upgrading to reach the ferries to Ireland, never mind a bridge.

Davidhs Thu 13-Feb-20 12:35:05

The recent airport plan was Foulmere on the north Kent coast but imagine the cost of a new build airport plus transport links. I know expanding Heathrow is unpopular but it is the sensible option because all the infrastructure is already there.

Cunco Fri 14-Feb-20 09:29:30

MaizieD I have now read the letter from the retired engineer. Apart from the political invective, it is very interesting. Like you, I was just adding information along side an opinion. For lots of reasons, I doubt that the bridge will be built.

Growstuff Whether voters vote out the Conservatives next time will depend, not only on their record, but whether there is a credible alternative. The Conservatives hardly had a great record leading into December 2019 but the prospect of Corbyn and McDonnell, fortified by the SNP and other minor parties, was just too terrible to contemplate. Who knows who will be the party leaders and the policies at the next election? You may be keeping a tally of missed targets but I suspect most people are getting on with their lives and will make a decision when the time comes.

MaizieD Fri 14-Feb-20 10:11:10

but the prospect of Corbyn and McDonnell, fortified by the SNP and other minor parties, was just too terrible to contemplate.

Oh dear......

trisher Fri 14-Feb-20 10:44:03

Who paid for Boris's holiday is becoming a real question! He's claiming David Ross of Carphone Warehouse only Ross said he didn't and it's not his house. So whose £15K was it?

varian Fri 14-Feb-20 17:38:49

Yes of course it is an important question, but will we ever get an honest answer? I doubt it.

We still haven't got to see the report on Russian interference in the fraudulent referendum of 2016.

The ordinary BJ voter doesn't care.

trisher Fri 14-Feb-20 20:07:27

So MPs having to declare any bungs or benefits they receive is just a bit pointless. and all they have to do is lie, because no one really cares. Well we have moved on from the expenses scandal haven't we?

Blinko Fri 14-Feb-20 20:11:04

How much would it cost to properly fund a good social care system? We need this a whole lot more than a bridge to NI.

varian Fri 14-Feb-20 20:16:23

We need a good social care system, massive provision of new homes, real investment in the NHS, education, crime prevention and criminal justice.

How much would all that cost and what could be the benefit compared to this fantasy bridge?

Alexa Sat 15-Feb-20 11:22:25

When the large 'red' contingent understand how Boris has fooled them , what might they do about it?

Cunco Sun 16-Feb-20 09:33:50

MaizieD Oh dear, indeed. Here are five reasons why Labour lost the election. The first two are the leader and the manifesto. It's not me. This is The Guardian.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/13/five-reasons-why-labour-lost-the-election

This thread has already forgotten the bridge (what bridge?) so I will leave it there.

Lovetopaint037 Sun 16-Feb-20 09:46:29

He’s off again. The fantasist who loves producing ridiculous ideas worthy of a schoolboy. No real knowledge, not thought through and certainly not costed. To think his decisions are going to influence our ability to survive Brexit is laughable if It wasn’t so horrifying.

Callistemon Sun 16-Feb-20 10:01:16

A bridge over troubled waters Cunco
Seems to be sorely needed.

Callistemon Sun 16-Feb-20 10:04:11

Actually, to be fair to Boris (someone has to be sometimes grin), he did not devise the concept nor design fhe bridge - that has been discussed by experts and designed by an architect Lovetopaint.

Links in my post above if you are interested.