Sensible Discussion on Labour Leadership hopefuls MK 2

I agree Growstuff I repeated what has been said by the far
left about Blair.

Milliband wasn’t a strong leader .

Sorry growstuff, messed up your user name.

I dont particularly think Ed Milliband is a great choice for cabinet for various reasons but he was not further right than Blair, banning zero hours contracts, and capping energy prices are not right wing. I agree with griwstuff that communication was an issue to an extent.

Anniebach I really do dispute that Miliband took the Labour Party further right than it had been previously. I don't accept that Blair was a Tory either.

If Milliband took the party further right than it had been previously this can only mean further right than Blair who has been called a Tory by the far left .

Corbyn wanted to take the party further left than it had been
in 1983 and the result was the worse loss of an election since
1935.

The 2015 general election was the only time I have voted Labour. I liked Miliband and I felt his policies were "left" of Blair/Brown. He had a problem with communicating some of his ideas. It's revisionism to claim that he was the same as Blair/Brown.

I know quite a few current LibDem and even Conservative voters, who feel the same as I do. We're never going to be Labour Party members, so won't get a say in who the Labour leader is, but we do have a vote in an election and could very well vote Labour, depending on what happens over the next four years.

Grandad I have a name - why don’t you use it? Saying ‘ one forum member’ is just childish. Why not ‘own’ who you are talking about? Pathetic.

Grandad1943 Did Ed Milliband take the Labour Party further to the Right than Tony Blair? Tony Blair was critical of Ed Milliband in his leadership days for being too far left of centre. A I recall, Blair favoured Ed's brother as leader, a man seen as more in Blair's own image.

Blair praised Ed Milliband for opposing a Referendum on EU before the 2015 General Election but his policy was overturned by Corbyn when he became leader after the Election which added further fuel to the Blair-Corbyn rift.

Yes, Galaxy, Miliband took the Parliamentary Labour Party further to the right than it had ever been previously, and then did not win the General Election, or had you forgotten that fact.

He is in line with the rest of the country then.

Growstuff, I feel that that Ed Miliband was a good leader of the Parliamentary Labour Party aligned in policy and structure as it was at the time he was leader. However, the whole Labour movement has moved on since that time and is now a very different body to that of Milibands leadership period.

Should Starmer, if elected, find a senior position for Ed Miliband in his shadow cabinet it would send a strong signal to many that the intention was to move the Parliamentary Party back to the policies and stance of that past era. That action, most definitely, would not be acceptable to almost all that make up the active membership of the broader Labour movement in the country.

Perhaps the problem is that Miliband has kept his head down to effectively in recent years, and in that has not identified with the large scale changes in the structure and stance of todays Labour movement.

Why do you think that Grandad? Ed Miliband proved not to be an effective leader, but my impression is that he's reasonably popular amongst potential Labour voters (not just those voting in the leadership election). As far as I know, he's kept his head down since he resigned as Leader and hasn't caused any trouble.

Just to add to my post above POGS, I think that the rumours of Kier Starmer having Edd Miliband in his shadow cabinet should he be elected as leader may have been "put about" by the mischief-making supporters of those opposing him.

I have great respect for Ed Miliband but I feel that Starmer would not last very long as leader should he find a place for Ed Miliband in his shadow cabinet.

POGS, no one can be sure who will win this ballot. I feel that it may be far more open than the media would try to have the public believe.

Lisa Nandy seems to have attempted to attract more publicity to her campaign in the last few days, but in doing that stated everything that labour activist members would certainly not vote for. As opposed to that Rebecca Long-Bailey seems to have revived her campaign by stating everything that the labour activist members wish to hear, especially affiliate activists.

Kier Starmer is just being Kier Starmer hoping that not stating too much will see him to victory. However, all three have undoubtedly moved decisively to the left in the last two weeks perhaps acknowledging that is where the majority who will vote in this election hold their beliefs.

Contrary to what one forum member has stated I believe there will be much to discuss in this thread in the next four weeks of the ballot period.

My Unite branch Secretary has informed us that our ballot forms should arrive by email on Monday, but we all have four weeks to finally make up our minds who to vote for should we wish.

Of course nothing of fact is known about who KS will choose for any position in his shadow cabinet. How on earth could there be? There really is nothing sensible left to discuss is there?

Grandad

Do you think there is anything in the rumours, I assume nothing of fact is known, Keir Starmer would choose Ed Miliband as his Chancellor were he to be elected?

Well Grandad despite your patronising dismissal of trans issues as something that could be left until later, it seems to be THE issue. Yesterday, it was the topic of the Moral Maze, today Tony Blair has had his say, - there’s not a media outlet that isn’t discussing it. There’s only one sensible thing to discuss now about the election and that’s how big a margin Keir Starmer will win by. Both LN and RLB have showed themselves totally unsuited to leadership by throwing women’s rights under the bus. Before this fiasco, I would have liked to see them in the Shadow Cabinet but now I think their lack of judgement and contempt for women makes them unfit for that. Their behaviour has diverted attention away from all the serious issues that should be being discussed during this contest and as such they’ve let down all of us ( on all sides of political debate) who want a decent opposition.

POGS, and all others truely interested in this leadership ballot, it would seem that the three remaining candidates understand that to veer away from left wing policies adopted over the last four years is a self-defeating strategy for this election.

They recognise that Labour’s membership retain a main priority. That priority is to preserve the core policies of the Jeremy Corbyn era, and indeed polls support that view.

However, it would also seem that many Labour Party members and especially affiliate members doubt whether two of the remaining candidates would retain their recent pledges in regard to the above if elected to leadership.

This election becomes more interesting by the day.

Link to the above can be found here:-

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/18/labour-candidates-left-leadership-race-members

Grandad

' would emphasise that the above are only my own thoughts in this matter, but I do not believe I am alone in those thoughts.'
---
I totally accept that Grandad and thank you for replying.

It is a situation you have been raising for a while and things my come to a head in my opinion with the new Leader whom ever he/she may be.

POGS, there has been some personal friction I feel between Len McCluskey and John Lansman but that may not extend to the National Executive Committees of either organization. As stated Momentum was born out of the Unite Unions community branch structure and many members of momentum are in all probability also activists within Unite and other trade unions.

The above, I feel, is why accord must be gained in the Parliamentary Labour Party. Continued infighting within the Parliamentary ranks will bring ever-increasing pressures on the National Executives of the leading trade unions from the grassroots activists to end the funding and other support of its political wing (currently the Parliamentary Labour party).

In regards to Momentum, could it be that they see themselves as the kernel structure of a new TUC political wing should the "plug be pulled" on the present Labour party by the trade unions?

I would emphasise that the above are only my own thoughts in this matter, but I do not believe I am alone in those thoughts.

Grandad

' To a lesser degree, Momentum has now been recognized as a separate affiliate organisation in its own right, which leaves me wondering what may be behind such a move into the future. They certainly now have the organisation and structure to take on whatever may come their way.'
----
Momentum certainly attained running the Corbyn/Momentum/Labour Party without the need to affiliate to the party.

Are you saying Momentum has now ' officially ' affiliated to the Labour Party?

Over time and discussions you stated Momentum was born out of the Unions and have mentioned of late there may have been a small division between Momentum and the Unions/McClusky, or have I misrepresented you, if I have I apologise profusely.

Do you have any thought using your own words ' what' s behind it '?

POGS in regard to your post @21:02 today, I have in this thread stated my view on why this leadership contest requires the number of weeks allocated by the Labour National executive. You have also asked me the following:-

POGS Quote [ Grandad, this topic has been discussed now on both the threads and you have not been asked this question. -

Do you believe threatening to ' EXPEL. ' Labour Members for holding an opposing opinion is good for the party? ] End Quote.

POGS, in your above request, I also have given what I believe should be the core reasons for members to be expelled from the Labour Party In this thread or the previous now expired thread.

However, I believe that no matter what any candidate for leadership may state in regard to Transgender issues, it will be undoubtedly the subject of several competing composite motions to be on the agenda for the Labour Party conference in September. In that, it will be the elected Delegate Members attending that conference who will decide following those debates what the policy should be, and that's the way any policy should be formed and upheld.

However, it may well be that this year's Labour delegate conference will have much larger issues to debate and deal with if anyone takes notice of developments which have taken place in recent days but have not attracted the media coverage many believe should have been given.

The threat of resignation by some MPs should Long-Bailey be elected as leader has attracted much anger in the broader Labour movement which will be the subject of major discussion at trade union conferences in the coming months which may well bring long-standing repercussions.

The date of the TUC annual conference has now been moved from it's traditional months of May or June and now is to be held in September just a few days prior to the Labour conference. The foregoing move is undoubtedly to give more time for individual unions to consult and debate with their memberships the future of the relationship between the trade union movement and the Parliamentary Labour Party.

In regard to this leadership election, a large number of trade union branches have now set up substantial WhatsApp groups to discuss the attributes of the candidates and form a consensus around who would best adequately represent the aspirations of working people and families in the UK.

The Unite Trade Union Transport Sector Branch that I am a member of has launched such a WhatsApp group to which approximately two hundred members have engaged in which is already bringing forward much promising and informed discussion.

To a lesser degree, Momentum has now been recognized as a separate affiliate organisation in its own right, which leaves me wondering what may be behind such a move into the future. They certainly now have the organisation and structure to take on whatever may come their way.

POGS there is much afoot I feel and that is bringing about large interest and more for those active within whole Labour movement. In regard to the time being taken, Labour party and wider activists have four years or more to resolve all the above, so, what is there to hurry?

Just watched the Channel 4 debate and I think the longer it goes on the more people will switch off.

I don't mean that in a derogatory way toward the candidates who are doing very well to keep composed and look comradery towards one another, it is like all other election campaigns simply too long a practice.

suziewoozie Quote [My little pink fluffy girlie brain had got quite muddled up as I was thinking about trans issues whilst ironing DH’s underpants, arranging a bouquet of daffodils and decideng which lipstick to wear in time for DHs return from a day out with the boys.] End Quote.

suziewoozie I am really pleased that you realise the limitations of your brain and the place you hold in your relationship with you dear husband. I am sure he will be very appreciative when he returns home from his day out with the boys.

It is wonderful that in the above quote a forum member is prepared to give such illumination into her everyday life.

This is based on 2019 manifestos

uncommongroundmedia.com/where-each-party-stands-on-self-id-and-womens-rights/