Sensible Discussion on Labour Leadership hopefuls MK 2

I have not found it boring.

There is absolutely no reason to at least try for party unity, instead of just dismissing it as impossible, that is an extremely defeatist attitude. Or is it that some people enjoy carping on the sidelines more than trying a little bit of compromise.

Such a long boring process isn’t it? Can’t believe it’ll be 4 April before we find out who can give Boris a run for his money.

The party cannot ever be united , all this talk about the parliamentary party and the broader labour movement.

With the campaign now effectively over I feel it makes little difference who Jeremy Corbyn speaks in support of or not. Most members and affiliate members have in all probability voted by now and the polling period is only being kept open for those on holiday or working away from home etc.

I would sum up the performance of the three candidates as being:-

Lisa Nandy, most definitely the most charismatic of the three candidates, and in that, having the most appeal to the broader Electorate outside of the Labour movement. However, Nandy seems not to have thought through thoroughly where she would wish to take the Parliamentary Party in relation to the Broader Labour movement which has been the source of so much conflict for the past four years.

Keir starmer, not a great charismatic speaker and seems to deliberately create a verbal "smokescreen" around himself on many issues. However, his last minute commitment to maintaining the policies and party structure that have been brought forward during the Corbyn era of leadership may well have gained him the leadership position at the conclusion of this ballot.

Rebecca Long-Bailey, undoubtedly is the least charismatic of the three candidates, but also undoubtedly has the clearest views on the future of the Parliamentary party in regard to policies and it's relationship to the Broader Labour Movement, which she views as requiring to be far more close.

However, I believe that her very hard-line approach to dealing with the right-wing of the Parliamentary party may have "intimidated" many even on the left of the movement from polling for her as there would seem to be a widespread desire to at least attempt unity from within the party and broader movement as it stands at present.

That, I believe, is doomed to failure in very short time.

I voted for RLB and RB

Difficult POGS, I think a hindrance going by the election result and many labour voters criticising Corbyn .

She hasn’t got all the unions support but she has Unite

Anniebach

You may well be right.

It won't come as a shock he backs Long Bailey but to go back on his word and to do so now it is down to 3 candidates plus votes are being cast they must think the Long Bailey campaign requires help.

Help or hindrance though?

He did say he would not give his endorsement, can it be support for Long Bailey is slipping .

I have never thought him a man of his word

Will it help or hinder Long Bailey chances?

I thought Jeremy Corbyn said he would not give his endorsement to any of the Leadership candidates.

Now he seems to be firmly in the Long Bailey camp.

That must annoy Nandy and Starmer.

Thank you Jura and Grandad for replying.

Watching the Labour Leadership debate on Sky as I type.

Grandad. Amen to your first paragraph.

Whatever

POGS, in regards to your post @17:25 today, I believe a number of us will remember the previous thread on this subject with great respect and even "admiration" for the way in which the debate was conducted in many phases of its long existence. Let it be hoped that this mark two rendition of that thread can now continue in the same vein.

You ask me what is the feeling now within the trades union and Momentum in regard to the upcoming announcement of the new leader of the Parliamentary Labour party, and whether the wider Labour movement are still likely to "pull the plug" on that body if widespread disapproval is expressed at the result.

In the above, first and foremost, I believe the whole Labour movement wishes to see the new Parliamentary leader bring unity to the party and through that eventually electoral success at the ballot box. However, whoever that leader may be, who he/she appoints to the shadow cabinet will be especially important I feel at this juncture in the Parliamentary Parties history.

It has to be remembered that the whole broader Labour movement is based and organised around its grassroots activists. Those activists very much maintain the whole body from on-site workplace representation to sustaining the activity of its trade sectors, district, reginal and national committees especially within the trade union movement. In that, the media portray the General Secretaries of the trade Union's as being all-powerful in those organisations, BUT THEY ARE NOT.

Those elected General secretaries are the spokespersons for the policies of the lay member National Executive committees of those trade unions and it will be those elected grassroots member commanded bodies which will eventually decide if the support and affiliation to the Parliamentary Labour Party is to continue.

All three candidates for the leadership have in the last few weeks expressed support for the continuation of the policies and structure in the party that has been brought about within the Corbyn era of administration. That comment by the candidates I believe has been in recognition of the need to carry the trade unions and all other affiliated organisations with them, if elected, which would include Momentum.

It is indeed very probable that the leading activists in the trade unions are also the same persons who are the main activists within Momentum. Therefore I do not believe with all that has been expressed by the leadership candidates that any early decisions will be made by those "holding sway" in the broader Labour movement as to whether continued support of the Parliamentary Party should be forthcoming.

Should the new Parliamentary Party Leader appoint in the eyes of those activists MPs to his shadow cabinet that support the ambitions and policies of those in the broader movement, then all will remain well I feel. However, should the new leader appoint any MPs to his/her shadow cabinet that have never demonstrated any support or respect for the ambitions, policies and persons within the broader movement, then the TUC conference in September may well be a very stormy affair indeed.

I am convinced that gone are the days when a considerable number of Labour MPs looked upon those rank and file activists within the trade unions in the same manner as they would look upon a lump of dog sh*t on their shoe are very much over, and if the Parliamentary Labour Party wishes to have a future it will ensure that no attempt is made to bring those days back.

Yes, POGS, it did. Fingers crossed.

Lots of people want RLB as they want the LP to be destroyed. Well it won’t happen.

I don’t think he will succeed annie

McClusky is having a go at Starmer and Nandy , he will do
anything to get Long Bailey in the leaders seat.

jura

You certainly have ' gone on a journey'.

You have told us over time you were a Lib Dem member but I remember you had changed your mind at the last election and voted Labour.

To become a Labour Member must have taken a lot of soul searching. The

Keir will win, no unions will disaffiliate and I think all the PLP will get behind him ( some chuntering more than others).

Grandad

On the first thread which reached 1000 posts you often made the following point/opinion such this post of yours:-

' the unions may well "pull the financial plug" on the existing Labour Party and then set up a new political wing with existing personal from within its Leading figures at its leadership.

I believe that persons such as Steve Preddy or Steve Taylor among others in the Unite Union would make good leaders of any new political organisation and many other people come to mind from other Trade Unions.'
--

On Politics Live today Matt Wrack, General Sec of the Fire Brigade Union, who back Rebecca Long Bailey, was asked if Keir Starmer became Labour Leader would the Fire Brigade Union ' disaffiliate ' from the Labour Party as it did when Tony Blair was Leader?

He said No!

Given your inside knowledge of Unite do you still hold fast that if anybody but Long Bailey becomes Leader the Unions ' coukd/might' stop funding the Labour Party and is the Fire Brigade Union usually at one so to speak with Unite in general.?

You also said on the other thread :-

'To a lesser degree, Momentum has now been recognized as a separate affiliate organisation in its own right, which leaves me wondering what may be behind such a move into the future. They certainly now have the organisation and structure to take on whatever may come their way.'
--

What is the feeling of late re Momentum? I have not seen nor heard so much from those who stated they were being a spokes person from Momentum but I put that down to the likes of Novara Media, Open Democracy et al who have the likes of Ash Sarkar, Grace Blakely etc. featuring so prominent in the media.

No I have not yet received my e-mail form. I will for for Keir- and would like him to choose his own deputy.

Keir Starmer may well win or he may well not suziewoozie. After all, who believed that Jeremy Corbyn would win at the start of polling in 2015 with 59 percent of the first preference vote.

I wonder if KS will win on first preferences? He’ll certainly win anyway. I’ve no idea about the Deputy.

Have you not received your ballot form online jura2? I believe with affiliated members that is the only way to receive and return the forms.

I voted for chits n giggles: Wrong-Daily HA-HAH!
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