Does anyone believe BJ has any intention of negotiating a Deal with EU?

Yay, someone mentioned Ireland, the way in which BJ etc are reneging on the Black Friday Agreement is cavalier to say the least. I know links are not appreciated on GN, but just in case here is a piece on the current UK stance. It's written by a journalist but it sums up how the UK is being perceived by at least one small nation in the EU:

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/britain-is-uncomfortable-because-ireland-has-the-upper-hand-for-the-first-time-1.4187051

In other words …

I've done my bit to stir up trouble and now I'm clearing off before the sh*t hits the fan.

(I've deleted my tweets so that people can't read what I promised would happen. Oh bugger! I'd forgotten about those Twitter nerds who can find deleted posts.)

Steve Barker tweeted: The UK has now left the EU and the PM has the policy, the mandate and the majority necessary to make a success of it.

Fait accompli, then?

What exactly has the EU added to the Withdrawal Agreement?

With hardly an exception, the Tories on GN have abandoned any critical faculties they may once have had. The government and especially BJ are perfect in absolutely everything they do ( or don’t do);

Just go on drinking the Kool-Aid, Ug

Mark François- oh my ...

Just seen a joke cartoon- well funny but not so in many ways, saying

Lent and ERG 'giving up the truth for Lent' how very Christian of them hey.

And Johnson has completely back peddled on Ireland! Sorry, but it's the UK which has lost any moral high ground.

BTW I don't know why, but Steve Baker has resigned from the ERG and deleted a series of tweets, which have now proved to be false. The tweets haven't disappeared completely and have been published. They're all about the wonderful deals the UK will have with the EU and the rest of the world.

Mark Francois is now Chair of the ERG.

Not quite as you say jura2 as the E.U. added a few sentences to the signed WA in their mandate earlier this week which is why Boris intends to diverge from it! Cute of them but Boris’ team were not happy.

Urmstongran I don't know whether you realise this, but you've just said the same thing as I have. All this bluster is to keep the "new" voters happy for political reasons - for the moment. He's lying to them and I wonder how long he can keep that narrative going.

And then what Urmstongran? Another Brexit party and a bit more flag waving?

What will actually have been achieved?

How will anybody's life be better?

I have no doubt that there is an element of bluster and game theory in what Johnson is saying. However, it's becoming increasingly clear that he doesn't know what he's doing. He's playing to his audience for his own sake and to maintain his own position. He's not listening to people who actually matter.

The best outcome would be for a sane deal with the EU, although that's going to take years to negotiate. Undoubtedly, there would be people who would say it's not "hard" enough and he'll have to think of a story (such as those nasty EU negotiators wouldn't let us have our own way) to save face. I wouldn't mind betting that Cummings has already written the script.

Because I think he intends to stick to his manifesto pledges GGMk3 - he knows he has been loaned votes and wants to keep them going forward - and so far, I’m happy with what he’s saying. The polls validate his continued popularity. Just not with you.

''The biggest difference in these negotiations is that we have Boris in charge. And he will walk away so the E.U. know this time around not to be intransigent''

oh yes, they know. They also know that is is a liar, incompetent, with a team of incompetents- and even more, that he cannot be trusted as his word is worthless.

Reading the EU Press- they have had enough. They know it will cost them dear- but they are ready. Much much more ready than we are (as in not ready at all)- they have each other, they also know that many big players are interested in more Trade Deals with the EU- which is a much larger and significatn block that Little Britain. They know that the UK will be damaged beyond recognition and probably not recover for decades- and it will make them much stronger.

But don't anyone dare complain about their 'intransigence' - Johnson has gone back on everything he agreed and signed so far- and he and the ERG, with Cummings- will have to bear the full responsibility of the debacle about to begin.

Why do you have so much faith in a lying coward UG? It seems very counter-intuitive.

I like the articles by Peter Foster in the Telegraph MaizieD. He’s a Remainer. It’s always good to read articles with viewpoints that challenge my own!

As he said two days ago in the Telegraph:

“We shall have to wait, probably, until October or November to really find out whether this confidence will persist as another ‘no deal’ looms, although there seems to be a fair chance we’ll already have had an early blow-up in the talks by then.

Because while the mandate says the negotiation will be multi-track and operate in parallel, it is not clear how – if you haven’t agreed the parameters of the level playing field discussion first – you can really negotiate across all the sectors.

EU member states, including Germany I understand, will push for clarity on this issue early – to avoid it polluting both EU budget negotiations but also to properly frame the later, crunch phase, of the negotiation.

Given the current levels of chest-beating on both sides, expect the first phase to bring more heat than light. But that might actually create the space for both sides, having set up a series of ‘straw men’, to make a deal.”

The biggest difference in these negotiations is that we have Boris in charge. And he will walk away so the E.U. know this time around not to be intransigent. Last time they were dealing with Mrs. May who needed a softer Brexit deal as she had no chance of getting it past the Remainer HoC.

Thanks, Maizie. The thing I find surprising is that Pete Foster finds the government attitude surprising.

It's incredible that the government didn't talk to business leaders before starting negotiations and won't be carrying out an impact assessment. People's jobs and lives are at risk. You should go into negotiations wanting the best for your country, not to maintain standing in polls.

Johnson only seems concerned in maintaining the illusion that "Brexit is done" because that's what he's been selling voters. Of course, he'll now try to spin this as being the EU's fault. The EU hasn't lost any moral high ground, however much Telegraph readers might want to believe it, but the UK has.

The UK has been punching above its weight internationally for years because it was seen as an honest, pragmatic, stable country. Unfortunately, other countries see us as a laughing stock. We're on our way to becoming a third world little island off the coast of mainland Europe.

OK. The Telegraph.

This is Pete Foster, the Europe editor of the Daily Telegraph. It's a long twitter thread which I've copied, omitting the screenshots of the documents he posted with each example from business organisations.

I make no excuses for its length.

Start
So. The UK's negotiating mandate is out, setting terms for future UK-EU partnership....livelihoods depend on all this, so here's the crazy part - the government admits it will do the economic assessments after the fact - see Para 12 1/Thread

Crazy, because you'd think that the government might have "invited contributions" before emarking on this journey. I now understand from source, there will be NO IMPACT ASSESSMENTS... /2

Which perhaps isn't that surprising, since we know from the October 2018 assessments that were forced out of the
@theresa_may government, they are all negative. This is NOT about relitigation of #Brexit. It is about taking an 'evidence-based' approach, about listening. /3

Of late, I have spent a lot of time talking to business groups - across all the sectors - and the groups, all with different issues, share one thing in common. A quiet, seething, livid rage. They fizz with frustration. It is quite remarkable to behold /4

I still don't really understand why the Conservative, the alleged party of business, is so content to become the party of "f*ck business", to borrow a phrase - and why they don't fear the reputational risk more, or the impact on their new 'red wall' votebank

Today, I've been watching the official statesments of business and lobby groups drop into my inbox. These are the official, chlorine-washed versions of what they feel able to say....so here are a few. The 'red' highlights are obviously my own. /6

Let's start with shipping, at random. It just came first. We need to protect value of trade with close partners, we are not convinced UK govt negotiatiors *recognises this reality". Do I need to decode that statement? WILL YOU PEOPLE LISTEN TO US? /7

Let's stick with transtport, see what Aviation groups ADS says? We need "pragmatic arrangements" ...we are "disappointed" the govt is not seeking more ambitious approach to aviation safety, says policy director
@cullasys Disappointed. /8

What about
@AllieRenison of @The_IoD , the bosses group? More disappointment. They were "hoping for a more balanced approach on alignment and divergence" - oh the glory the understatement. Only a quarter of IOD members reckon there is time to sign and implement a deal. /9

What about the British Retail Consortium
@the_brc- whose member have shelves to stack? Customers to serve? UK govt must to "much further" in its ambitions to avoid "disruption at the border". They warn of proposals "lack clarity" on the most basic stuff - like VAT. /10

What about
@cbicarolyn of the CBI? She warns about "red tape" and urges govt to let biz "provide the insight that is essential for the UK to prosper outside the EU.” English translation? Please, please listen to us...pretty please. /11

Not strictly a trade group, and obviously more partisan, but here's what Scottish Govt has to say - UK govt strategy sets "extraordinarily low bar" and cd cost economy £9bn-12.7bn by 2030, compared with EU membership /12 news.gov.scot/news/uk-mandate-will-hit-scotlands-economy…

This will no doubt be condemned as more carping, more endless relitigation of #brexit...but that is not what this is about. Brexit is happening, course it is, but it is remarkable to listen to the roll-call of despair from those who employ folks, pay mortages etc. /13

This will no doubt be condemned as more carping, more endless relitigation of #brexit...but that is not what this is about. Brexit is happening, course it is, but it is remarkable to listen to the roll-call of despair from those who employ folks, pay mortages etc. /13

It's easy to demonise big business, harder to do that to the little guys. But as we embark on this great adventure next week, the UK govt will hold a consultation on these impacts "later this sprin". Does anyone seriously think they'll listen? ENDS

End

Here's the thread if anyone wants to see the documents he cites

twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1233094625809838080

Of course, there are the recently shafted farmers, too. The NFU president says:

Minette Batters(NFU) - For Boris Johnson "to sign up to a trade deal which results in opening our ports, shelves & fridges to food which would be illegal to produce here would not only be morally bankrupt, it would be the work of the insane."

Watch her saying it here:

twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1232300200913514496

Who are the Telegraph to say what "Britain feels"? Maybe the small percentage that are their readers do but how dare they decide what the rest if us feel. I do not expect this sort of blatant ignorance from the educated writers of this news sheet. Could we possibly have an intelligent discussion, please?

From the Telegraph tonight:

“Britain feels that the EU has already lost the moral high ground after studying the EU's own mandate published earlier this week. While Michel Barnier has insisted that the political declaration – an attachment to the EU Withdrawal Agreement that sets out the basics of the future relationship between Britain and the EU – must be followed to the letter, the UK says Brussels has already massively overstretched beyond what was agreed.

One of the most telling comments this morning from a Government official was that while the political declaration contains just one paragraph on the EU's "level playing field" demands for standards and regulations, the EU mandate contains 20 paragraphs on it, proving that the declaration is effectively meaningless.

As ever, the biggest gulf between the two sides is over the level playing field. The EU says Britain must agree to adhere to EU standards and rules to prevent unfair competition, Boris Johnson says over my dead body.

The two sides are miles apart as things stand. The negotiations begin on Monday, but whether either side walks out before they even get to Tuesday is anyone's bet.”

I'd totally agree fishing quotas should never have been sold for lots of profit for a few, to foreign interests.

Most of the fish caught in our waters is sold to the EU. Without an agreement, our fishermen will have no market. The reality if that we export the fish we have, as we don't like it- and vice-versa. A bit of a pain, that.

Don't think it is Boris using the word 'Demand' surely protecting our fishing waters from huge foreign trawlers decimating a natural resource in our coastal waters has to be a good thing?! Or should they once again be sacrificed for the sake of the gravy train and corruption of the very wealthy!

Yes, I agree. ”I want doesn't get” is what we used to tell children. So perhaps you need to tell our PM that if that's his stance viz-a-viz the EU he needs to change his tune. If he is at all interested in getting a deal that is.

Why on earth should the EU not insist that there must be a border between UK territories and the EU?