New Labour LEADER

Had I not responded you would no doubt be challenging the fact I was ignoring you!

Do you know, I don't think I have ever done that. I do hope I haven't. We all have every right not to answer the questions we don't want to.

not too sure about either of them. been reading up about the deputy head and i have my doubts

Angela Rayner in an interview this morning, said more of
Corbyn than Stammer , Corbyn is still leader for her.

... the same as I would hope that sensible statement would apply to both a government in waiting and the newly formed government.

When did we last have one of those? It seems to have been continuity Conservative for such a long time.

I think you know that to be my history as I have been challenged enough times.

It's surprisingly easy to forget who thinks what I'm afraid. Sorry if you thought I should remember - I just don't, other than a certain person is a bit obsessively anti-Corbyn that is but I don't think you have explained that many times

I am hoping that fresh and intelligent input from Starmer will help solve the war between government ministers like Sunak and Hancock.

The last thing we need is disagreement in the government.

"Cat in hell" not car - stupid predictive text

Hmmm suppose he is ok apart from being an ardent remainer, time will tell whether I'm prepared to vote for him, not a car in hells chance was I going to vote for Corbyn but I'm prepared to give Kier a chance though I can't stand Angela Rayner

GracesGran

" It will be nice to turn off GN for a while if this continues. It's not a political discussion really, is it? It's all derogatory personal remarks. All that is left I presume.
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If you follow the time line of this thread you will note that you and Whitewave ' turned ' this thread into one of a personal nature by repeatedly asking me for a response. Had I not responded you would no doubt be challenging the fact I was ignoring you!

Believe me I am happy not to respond to your questions but I have never backed away from answering. I suggest you stop asking for answers.

GracesGranMK3 Sun 05-Apr-20 09:37:57

'POGS, obviously you don't have to answer but I wonder if you are a Labour member or voter?'
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I have no problem in answering this question, of which I have been asked many times over the years, no doubt by yourself if I looked hard enough.

I am not a member of any Political Party.

I was raised by a staunch Labour/Union father and voted Labour for years. Things changed at the time of Militent Tendency and I saw something nasty happening within Labour.

I have voted for both Labour and Conservative parties, returning to Labour under Blair.

I think you know that to be my history as I have been challenged enough times.
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" If not, I wonder what value your opinions are to those members and voters who are, at the moment."

My opinions are mine to give as and where I choose to be honest. I think you reserve that right too.

As to the ' value' of my opinions to those who are members or voted for Labour I am sure they are inconsequential but does that not equally apply to ALL posters who post on threads discussing political parties they do not belong too?

If it were the case we should only post/comment on politics /threads if we are members of the party in question or vote for that party then I would say some posters need to seriously ask themselves am I proposing ' Do as I say, not do as I do'.
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"Now is the time, for those who would like to see successful social democracy in this country, to simply ignore the nay-sayers and destroyers and give this team a chance to build a government in waiting."

I agree, the same as I would hope that sensible statement would apply to both a government in waiting and the newly formed government.

So pleased that Keir won. He is sensible and will get the Labour party respected once again.

Stop your ' whataboutery' and ' deflection'.

A bit tautological POGS. What whataboutery are you accusing Whitewave of this time? Just checking.

I think he will be PM one day.

Good Lord. The right is really worried, aren't they? All the same old, same old though.

It will be nice to turn off GN for a while if this continues. It's not a political discussion really, is it? It's all derogatory personal remarks. All that is left I presume.

Whitewavemark2 Sun 05-Apr-20 09:37:43

'In this new found spirit of neutrality pogs I fully expect you to turn your big guns now on the islamophobia and anti- semitism in the Tory party.'
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Oh dear we have been here before. This is is a tired old format you regurgitate toward me Whitewave so I will answer as I always do.

If you have read my posts over the years and were honest you would know that I have stated at every turn Islamophobia /Antisemitism is NOT acceptable in ANY party.

Stop your ' whataboutery' and ' deflection'.

I think some of the criticisms about Starmer are a bit rich when you consider BJ’s history. Any democracy needs a functioning opposition and there is a chance now we’ll get one. The real problem is that many right of centre people don’t want any credible left of centre opposition at all.

Hm. His wife is Jewish and he didn’t do much about anti semitism. He was shadow Brexit Secretary and couldn’t stop Labour’s Brexit Policy from being a disaster. Angela Rayner has no experience of anything. To me, Andy Burnham should be Labour leader, the sooner he better. Don’t think Kier has enough bottle.

I have never voted labour in my life but I am so pleased that Rebecca Long-Bailey did not win. He has said he will work with the government in these troubled times.

Whitewavemark2 Sun 05-Apr-20 09:22:25

'So definitely no flip flopping on Starmers part?'
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Have you forgotten the so-called Labour ‘ Chicken Coup ’ in 2016 ?

Labour MP's tried to topple Corbyn and Starmer will be remembered for his resignation letter and part in that by the Far Left/Corbyn/Momentum group.

Starmer resigned from Corbyns Shadow Cabinet when he was Shadow Minister of State for Immigration in the Shadow Foreign Office. He resigned, along with many other Labour MP's stating in his resignation letter :-

" I have maintained my support for you… However. the resignations… materially change this. It is simply untenable now to suggest that we can offer an effective opposition without A CHANGE OF LEADER ."

During the subsequent Leadership battle Starmer backed Corbyns rival candidate Owen Smith but when Smith lost and Corbyn resumed as Labour Leader Starmer flip flopped, had a Damascene moment and went back into the Shadow Cabinet under Corbyn and accepted an appointment as Shadow Brexit secretary.

I remember there were posters who were quite abusive and unforgiving toward those Labour MP's who resigned such as Starmer but again ' hypocrisy' will see some posters have a selective loss of memory in their quest to be seen as happy to now back Starmer.
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Starmer often flip flopped oner Brexit. As Shadow Brexit Minister he changed his tune regularly, the message was mixed and jumbled. I literally watched him one Sunday being interviewed by Sophie Ridge and Andrew Marr and he said two different things over the Second Referendum, just as an example.

Another example would be one minute Starmer stated "freedom of movement will have to end.", the next minute ???

As for your personal jibes re my politics Whitewave, using your silly emojis, I reiterate my comment earlier up thread:-

" I reserve my judgement on Starmer as I believe him to be a flip-flopper who tells interviewers and the media what he thinks they want to hear rather than sticking to his guns but time will tell and I wish him well."

Annie do you care about Palestinians who are dying in Gaza and who lack medical care? Or is a wall mural as far as your sympathies extend?

Not forgetting his support for the anti Semitic wall mural

As anti-semitism has raised its head again I now worry that the LP will ditch the Palestinian cause and leave them to struggle alone. If anyone doubts that it was Corbyn's stance on Palestine that caused some of the anti-semitism accusations read the post election article by a Jewish activist electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/we-slaughtered-jeremy-corbyn-says-israel-lobbyist
And before anyone starts to accuse me of anti-semitism I don't think this is a Jewish conspiracy, I don't think all Jews were involved, I do think stopping Palestine gaining any political recognition is a cause for some.

I was confused about it myself Gracesgran. Whitewave seemed to be saying that pogs should also criticise the tories and that her lack of criticism of the tories was somehow suspicious. I have no idea of pogs political leanings and care even less, but for those of us who were critical of Corbyn being called a tory is a common 'insult'.

I have no idea of Pogs political leanings, I just get a little tired of those who are critical of some aspects of the labour party being called tory.

I missed that Galaxy. Which post are you referring to?

I was brought up Labour but have usually voted Lib Dem, occasionally voting Labour; however I felt unable to do so in recent years.

Callistemon I believe the Liberal Party are still firmly wedded to neoliberalism. I have never been able to understand how someone looking for social democracy could see that as a way to achieve it. It has now, apparently, been abandoned by even the Financial Times:

If there is a silver lining to the Covid-19 pandemic, it is that it has injected a sense of togetherness into polarised societies. But the virus, and the economic lockdowns needed to combat it, also shine a glaring light on existing inequalities — and even create new ones. Beyond defeating the disease, the great test all countries will soon face is whether current feelings of common purpose will shape society after the crisis. As western leaders learnt in the Great Depression, and after the second world war, to demand collective sacrifice you must offer a social contract that benefits everyone.

When the Liberals subsumed the Social Democrats there was no movement in their direction. I actually can't see how they could. I can see no way you could see a similarity between the recent LDs and a possibly social-democratic LP. I would keep voting Liberal if you have their values. I can't see how social democracy or even social conservatism could appeal to a Liberal with their fundamental valuing of neoliberal economics.