New Labour LEADER

I have no idea of Pogs political leanings, I just get a little tired of those who are critical of some aspects of the labour party being called tory.

suzie giving my head a wobble and coming up on the down train ?? my world has expanded so much reading your posts?

galaxy ? sorry I have been supposed to have been talking mostly to pogs this morning.

I’m very good at confusing the issue. Which post are you talking about?

callistum momentum would like to think that they are in control, but they have no voting power neither do they influence the majority of the members. Day to day the local Labour Party in every town and city in the country are what matters. That is why what I see on the ground so often simply does not chime with what the media are saying.

It's going to be interesting.

In a way, becoming leader at this time gives KS some opportunities he wouldn’t otherwise have had. I think this will work against Momentum who will seem increasingly irrelevant and out of touch. I think his letter to the BOD is brilliant. Note he wants a video conference with the whole range of Jewish organisations not just the BOD who despite many beliefs to the contrary only represent part of the totality of the Jewish community. That’s a very shrewd start imo. POGS you must think some of us have come up on the down train ?

It should be a broad church but would the Momentum group be happy to be part of that if they are used to being in control?

We won't know unless they try.

Whitewavemark2 the Tory Party is not an offshoot of a much larger organisation such as the Parliamentary Labour Party are.

Grandad do you really see the LP as simply and only an offshoot of the unions? I really don't think that is how many voters feel. Perhaps what you are saying is that this is all you would want it to be?

If it is, in actuality, a Trades Union Party could someone point me in the direction of another socially democratic party? There was my thinking they were a part but not the whole.

I was brought up Labour but have usually voted Lib Dem, occasionally voting Labour; however I felt unable to do so in recent years. I know others who continued to vote Labour through gritted teeth, at the same time worrying about the influence of Momentum and wanting them gone.
But, of course, everyone will have different views.
It should be a broad church but would the Momentum group be happy to be part of that if they are used to being in control?

I am not sure I understand whitewave, I have never criticised the Tories on this thread either, or on the thread about the labour leadership election, I have never voted for them either. I dont understand your point.

POGS, obviously you don't have to answer but I wonder if you are a Labour member or voter?

If not, I wonder what value your opinions are to those members and voters who are, at the moment. Now is the time, for those who would like to see successful social democracy in this country, to simply ignore the nay-sayers and destroyers and give this team a chance to build a government in waiting.

Meanwhile, those who only want a puppet opposition could start by going on other threads and telling us what the Conservative exit strategy is, why we haven't got testing in place and why they tried to destroy the NHS.

In this new found spirit of neutrality pogs I fully expect you to turn your big guns now on the islamophobia and anti- semitism in the Tory party.

I think many who normally vote Labour may be hoping that Momentum and their somewhat malevolent web will be kicked into the long grass.

Surely many of those who "normally vote Labour" will want Momentum to become a more cross-party movement and, rather than being "kicked into the long grass" become a part of the party that fulfils a balance of spontaneity against the long and sometimes rather tedious but necessary processes of a bottom-up, democratic party.

I often but not always vote Labour and that is what I would hope for. Perhaps - radical thought, I know - not all Labour voters think the same as you Callistemon.

So definitely no flip flopping on Starmers part?

'pogs good post and I take it that you have put the flopping claim to one side and conceded defeat on that one.'
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Not at all Whitewave!

I'll tell you one thing I see as Flip flopping /Volte Face/ U Turn./ Damascene moment.

As for the letter to The President of The Board Of Deputies of British Jews, Marie van der Zil.

That was long overdue and I am glad he has hit the ground running on that.

I have to say I find it will be astoundingly hypocritical of those who have challenged myself and other posters ' for years ' over antisemitism in the Labour Party, to now have some sort of Damascene Moment, do a total U Turn, a Volte Face, Flip Flop now Corbyn has gone.

For years they have argued antisemitism in Labour was all a lie, a conspiracy against Corbyn, must be Tories, the hated Red Rag liars, even disbelieving the Labour MP's and Councillors who were telling of their vile abuse within the Labour Party, yet now Corbyn has gone they can and will do a total U Turn, a Volte Face, Flip Flop and and admit it was all true by praising Starmer for finally taking action.

Had Corbyn never become Labour Leader, or had Corbyn done the right thing the Jewish Labour voters, Labour MP's and Councillors who suffered the intolerance and abuse would never have left, would they?

Of course pogs your claim that you are disarmingly pretty neutral and your interests only lay in the political sparing between the parties, would be much more believable if they contained the occasional criticism of the Tory party??.

But not to worry, I know where your agenda lies.

pogs good post and I take it that you have put the flopping claim to one side and conceded defeat on that one.

Starmers “mixed review” as DPP lead to his knighthood. So by that I assume you mean - good, better,best.?

Whitewave2, thanks for copying out that information about KS as DPP and the Saville scandal. Starmer's record as a lawyer and at the DPP is good enough to withstand scrutiny.
That's what he was knighted for, services to public service. He's the best thing that happened to the LP and in turn, to this country in a good while.
He has a huge challenge ahead in beginning to form the LP into an effective opposition and government in waiting.

Whitewave

'pogs of course you see Starmer as a threat if being compared to Johnson..
I am not a bit surprised that you have come in all guns blazing, but you have yet to provide evidence of your assertion concerning your flip flopping claim.'
----

All guns blazing! You mean challenging your perceptions and opinions.

I don' t see Starmer as a threat to Johnson or visa versa. I am interested to watch, listen and learn how the 2 leaders will spar over the coming years.

At this precise catastrophic time in our history I am glad it is now Starmer in charge and not Corbyn and Starmer 'has' accepted the Prime Ministers offer to meet and hopefully put aside politics of a devicive nature /political point scoring, to work cross party over the COVID 19 outbreak. As I said previously what a difference a day makes.

As for those who think it unfair to ' dig up dirt', criticise or state facts about Starmer and his history, perversely whilst not bothering when it happens to others at times, then I ask why?

It is obvious Keir Starmer will come in for extra scrutiny now he is a leader of a political party, why not?

You can only ' dig up dirt ' if it is there to be found. It also depends what we as individuals consider to be classed as ' dirt ' when it comes to what we think of others.

Starmer is not going to be different to any other politician and during the Labour Leadership Campaign some tried to tarnish his name but they were not the hated Red Rags, they were from the other candidates camp.

Starmer has certainly received a mixed review of his time as Director of Public Prosecutions over the years and no doubt there will be a resurgence of past stories for good or bad but that will be another case of ' being in the eye of the beholder'.

As mentioned ' fans don' t care ' but others who know little about him will be no doubt be interested to form their opinion.

Starmer has sent the following letter to Marie van der Zil,

pbs.twimg.com/media/EUyqr4eWAAE2280?format=jpg&name=large

callistum yes! That’s him? thank you.

pogs of course you see Starmer as a threat if being compared to Johnson..
I am not a bit surprised that you have come in all guns blazing, but you have yet to provide evidence of your assertion concerning your flip flopping claim.

I can provide thousands with regard to Johnson, as well as absolute evidence of his lies etc.

With regards to his DPP role and the charge paddyann is trying to lay on him.

I have copied and pasted a report - in this case from the ES but there is masses of evidence out there. Starmer as DPP took the responsibility for the apparent failure of the CPS in not challenging the way the police reached their conclusions over Saville. He of course was not personally responsible, but as head of the CPS apologised for its failings as any good head should.

“Jimmy Savile could have been prosecuted for sex offences while he was still alive but for blunders by police and lawyers, it was revealed today.

Britain’s chief prosecutor apologised for the failure to pursue four separate allegations against the BBC star, one made as recently as four years ago.

Director of Public Prosecutions Keir Starmer said there were failures by police in Sussex and Surrey and by the principal lawyer in dealing with the allegations. He issued a personal apology for the mistakes by the Crown Prosecution Service and announced a series of changes to improve the investigation of allegations by child victims.
A review of the CPS decisions and the police action concluded that a prosecution could have been possible in three out of the four cases. At the time the CPS lawyer concluded that because none of the victims wished to give evidence, no prosecutions could be brought.

However, the review of their actions by the DPP found police should have told victims they were not alone in making complaints, and that the CPS lawyer should have challenged police conclusions.

The first police investigation was sparked by a complaint to officers in Surrey in 2007. A woman, now in her mid-forties, told Surrey police that Savile assaulted a girl of 14 or 15 at the Duncroft Children’s home in Staines in the late Seventies.

Surrey police launched an inquiry and two further allegations against Savile were revealed, one involving an assault on a 14-year-old outside Stoke Mandeville Hospital in 1973. Another police inquiry was launched in 2008 by Sussex Police after a complaint that Savile assaulted a woman in her twenties in a caravan in Sussex. An inquiry by the CPS into these complaints revealed that both forces became aware of each other’s inquiries.

In October 2009, the CPS reviewing lawyer with responsibility for the cases advised that since none of the complainants was “prepared to support any police action”, no prosecutions could be brought.

The review by the CPS chief legal advisor Alison Levitt QC concluded there was no evidence of any “improper motives” in the decisions by either police or lawyers. But she said the CPS lawyer should have challenged the police conclusions and sought to build a prosecution against Savile.”

Starmer is the most credible Labour leader for many years and 56% of the members backed him, which is a decent majority. If he keeps the militant left under control he has a good chance of winning an election, there is talk of Momentum holding him to account - they have lost a lot of momentum and will fade into obscurity. The Labour Party is it’s own worst enemy allowing extremists to hold sway, Kinnock could have been PM if Militant Tendency had not spoiled it.

So don’t talk about turning the clock back 40 yrs, tackle the injustices that we face today and give him a chance of getting elected.

I agree POGS Starmer isn’t all that centrist but compared to Corbyn....!
However only time will tell, and he if gives in to the far left they won’t have a hope in hell of winning another GE.
Labour now has to appeal to many, many other voters.

Anneliese Dodds......ye gods!
Now feeling unsure about Starmer........hope he isn’t a weak leader in wolf’s clothing.

I’m sure there are lots trying to dig up dirt on KS, well BJ has had a lot of dirt dug up and look where he is....his fans don’t care.