New Labour LEADER

I owe an apology.

Andy McDonald was not sacked nor resigned he has changed role in the Shadow Cabinet. If I have made a mistake on any of the others I apologise now.

Interesting that when Corbyn became leader he was urged to include people in the Shadow cabinet on the right of the party, but no one seems bothered or interested in Starmer building bridges with the left. Most people are now watching and waiting to see if he keeps his promises.

All Corbynites

It is interesting to see the new Shadow Cabinet, just as it has been interesting to see who was sakced or resigned such as -

Barry Gardiner
Ian Lavery
Jon Trickett
Richard Burgon
Andrew Gwynn
Dianne Abbot
Dawn Butler
Tracy Brabin
Andy McDonald

Hope for Labour now, unless it is tempted into a coalition with the Lib Dems to stop Brexit and the game will start all over again.

Although some of the educational establishments have gone there are still processes in the trade union movement which support and educate people. A friend with a very basic education and no qualifications has progressed and become a union leader. She has had help with things like public speaking and is now so confident, it is great to see.

That's interesting Grandad1943 and trades unions often offered a a way for people who were not unintelligent, but hadn't done well, for a variety of reasons, in the school system, a second chance at education. Remember Ruskin college? Many Labour MPs came via that route, and Workers Educational Courses were also brilliant. I think many of these opportunities have sadly gone now, and a good number of MPs from all parties have been privately educated.
What a waste of working class talent.

Not only for their members, they kept Lord Robens in his job

Thangam Debbonaire, Shadow Housing
Good
Corbyn gave her a rotten time when she was ill.

In general Starmer seems to have chosen on intellect and ability. It seems quite a good start.

There would be several in this thread who are declaring their experience of the trade unions, so can I also declare my own.

I left school in 1960 just about able to read but almost totally unable to write and my maths were not much better. In that, I was labelled as stupid by many of my teachers at that time and a failure.

I progressed to become an HGV Driver in the mid-sixties as no paperwork was required to obtain a truck licence during that period. However, I was called into the office of the company I worked for over the way I had filled out a vehicle defect report. The union shop steward called me to one side at the conclusion of the meeting and suggested I enrolled in one the Transport Unions basic education courses which I did

The experience could not have been more different from my school years by way of tutors who really did understand my problems and how to solve them. Within eighteen months I was writing as I am now and my maths improved immensely.

From that, I was able to put myself forward to become the elected employee's Safety representative for the depot which again took me into trade union education to obtain the qualifications required. That took me into management for the safety in eight other depots two years later and eventually into starting my own industrial safety business several years beyond that.

So, my experience of trades union would be that I owe to them everything that I have become and achieved throughout my adult life. Many others have experienced similar to myself following trade union education courses and have gone on into management often rising to senior positions.

The trade unions are not all about confrontation, but they are about achieving what is best for their members provided those members are prepared to engage and not expect all to be provided for them without any effort.

Urm I don’t think JC is a ‘notable absence’ as would mean his absence is worthy of note. It isn’t - it’s his presence that would have been amazing. Like you though I think it’s a pretty good Shadow Cabinet with an interesting mix of the new, the known and some safe pairs of hands. Grandad is there any chance you could spell Ed and Keir’s name correctly? Thank you

Red Edd started when the Unions supported him against David Milliband

So, Edd Miliband known to the media as Red Edd when he was the leader of the party is back on the front bench.

Well, doubtless he will now be greeted as a right-wing revisionist by that same media at this point in time, prior to that media doing a character assassination job on Kier Starmer as they have with all Labour Party leaders since Harold Wilson.

Within a few weeks, Starmer will be labelled as a communist, Stalinist, Maoist and much more as well, along with his compatriot Red Edd. ?

Thank you for the advice Iam64. Will do and I will try to keep the faith!

can I ask why you are afraid of unions? & Are you comfortable with the 'power and strength' of the big businesses and money laundering Russian oligarchs who fund the tory party?
The answer to you both is that they seem to be 2 sides of the same coin i.e. people or organisations who expect a 'bang for their buck' and wield too much influence. This was just one of the reasons I found I could not vote for either of the main parties at the last election.

Yes, I have been a member of a union, yes, my family too was a union family - my father represented his workplace at their annual union conference for many years. But personally, the only organisation that made any difference to my working conditions was the one over the water of which we must no longer speak!

The full list?

· David Lammy, Shadow Justice
· John Healey, Shadow Defence
· Ed Miliband, Shadow BEIS
· Emily Thornberry, Shadow International Trade
· Jonathan Reynolds, Shadow Work and Pensions
· Rebecca Long-Bailey, Shadow Education

· Jo Stevens, Shadow Digital, Culture, Media and Sport
· Bridget Philipson, Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury
· Luke Pollard, Shadow DEFRA
· Steve Reed, Shadow Communities and Local Government
· Thangam Debbonaire, Shadow Housing

Jim McMahon, Shadow Transport
· Preet Gill, Shadow International Development
· Louise Haigh, Shadow Northern Ireland (interim)
· Ian Murray, Shadow Scotland
· Nia Griffith, Shadow Wales
· Marsha de Cordova, Shadow Women and Equalities

Andy McDonald, Shadow Employment Rights and Protections
· Rosena Allin-Khan, Shadow Minister for Mental Health
· Cat Smith, Shadow Minister for Young People and Voter Engagement
· Lord Falconer, Shadow Attorney General

· Valerie Vaz, Shadow Leader of the House
· Nick Brown, Opposition Chief Whip
· Baroness Smith, Shadow Leader of the Lords
· Lord McAvoy, Lords’ Opposition Chief Whip

That's a pretty good Shadow Cabinet Keir Starmer has put together. One notable absence of course is Jeremy Corbyn who has now gone 37 years without being offered a cabinet post by any Labour leader!

‘Present but not involved’.

OK

David Lammy s. Justice
John Healy s. Defence
RLB s education
Ed Miliband s Brexit bod
Thornberry s international trade
Johnathan Reynolds s W&P

magic wand, try to read independent reports about Keir Starmer, rather than reach decisions based on comments here

I am a supporter of KS as leader of the. LP. Earlier in this thread, an accurate report of KS involvement with the Saville scandal was summarised, I think, by whitewave. KS ran the DPP well, his legal work from the start of his career has been of a very high standard. He did so much ProBono work as a young Barrister, the head of his Chambers warned him to do some paid work or he'd never get a mortgage.
He's trustworthy and has integrity. He's also very bright

But mainly for me, opening the huge can of worms that is the overwhelming power and influence wielded by the unions.

What is it about the 'power and strength' of the unions that you fear, MagicWand?

Are you comfortable with the 'power and strength' of the big businesses and money laundering Russian oligarchs who fund the tory party?

With people like this? The guy who left BHS workers with minimal or no pension...

I quote the first 2 tweets from the thread I've linked to because I find the figures quite staggering...

Imagine being born at the same time as Jesus and you were given £1,000 every day, which you stashed under the mattress. Even if you lived until today, two millennia later, you still wouldn't be a billionaire - like Sir Philip Green, the boss of Arcadia who bought and closed BHS.
If you had been given £5,000/day, you still wouldn't be as wealthy as Philip and Tina Green, whose net worth is £5.2bn.

twitter.com/Marsell0409/status/1245807401229484033

These are the people the tories run the country for...

MagicWand can I ask why you are afraid of unions? Any power and influence they have is wielded democratically and in the interests of their members who are ordinary working people. Are you afraid of strikes? And have you never had a job where you felt you should join a union? I'm asking because I was raised to believe in unions, and worked in a job where it was advisable to join one so I really don't understand.

*annie that’s why I think that political funding should be looked at and changed.

I must look at how the row do it. In democratic countries I mean.

Whitewave the unions don’t own the Labour Party but it seems they own, the purse strings .

He who pays the piper !

I thank you for all your comments, they have been very helpful to me. As a self-confessed floating voter, I had found myself in December 2019 in the position of not feeling I could vote for either of the main parties.

I had looked and listened to Keir Starmer and felt that here was a leader who was a person of integrity, had life experience in bucketfuls and was not just a career politician. I also felt that he had a vision of a possible new way of politics and even of society post Covid-19.

But, having read most of the comments on the 13 pages of this thread, if this is a cross-section of the the issues facing him, I wish him well but no longer feel so optimistic.

I am left with the impression that a shiny new face has been erected, like a fresh poster on a billboard, just papering over the issues that have been chewed over for all of my lifetime; the old chestnut of the north/south divide, prejudice against perceived privilege, university education, intelligence, titles - even those awarded for merit. But mainly for me, opening the huge can of worms that is the overwhelming power and influence wielded by the unions.

I will wait to be convinced but sadly, for me, this is no longer a new dawn.

You think Jess Phillips is “poison”? What’s happened to trying to be nice to each other in these difficult times? I don’t think we need trolls on Gransnet

Lots of big words Grandad and I'm sure they all have lots of meetings. What is needed is a Labour Party which appeals to those who don't care about policies and procedures, which can win elections.