New Labour LEADER

trisher I don't think the trades unions are necessarily representative of socialists. I was a member of a trade union all my working life (a print union, a teachers' union and Unison) and I can't say I witnessed much solidarity. Only a few days ago, a GNer attacked teachers, who make up a high percentage of trade union members. The in-fighting between unions was astonishing.

I witnessed unions who didn't really connect with their members and "activists" with generous salaries, who weren't truly representing anybody.

Agreed Bluecat well said and Jaycee5 The dear man JC will be missed Let's see how Starmer does as new leader.

I’ve been wondering where the next lot of announcements are, but I forgot that Starmer is at a cobra meeting this morning.

trisher you are right, but the unions don’t own the Labour Party, it is a democratic organisation

M0nica the key word is underpin I think. They undoubtedly fund the LP but the roots of the policies of socialism and workers rights which are the basis of the LP are also the roots and basis of the Trade Union movement. It always amuses me when people question the position of Trade Unions, which as they represent 6 mill people are the broadest body influencing any political party, but are happy to ignore individuals and small companies influencing and funding other parties. I know which I find the most threatening. I also think anyone criticising should reflect what conditions for working people would be like had there been no unions. Zero hours contracts would only be the beginning. Conditions and pay would be dreadful.

To win power you have to have a credible candidate, credible policies and support of the centre ground, talk of a socialist movement is misplaced. That’s why Blair won and Corbyn lost wether there were judged a success or failure is another matter, they had their chance.
My own view is that none of the PMs in my time has been a success they all could have done much more, easily.

growstuff there are many organisations that belong to the Labour movement which would include such organisations as the Fabian Society if they affiliate.

In recent years those organisations have even been allowed representation at the Labour Party Annual Delegate Conference which is the supreme policy-making body for the whole movement.

We know that billionaires help keep the Tory show on the road, so would we agree that these tax dodgers should have direct influence in tory party policy?

So surely it is exactly the same argument with Labour and the unions.

I think I am probably arguing for a different form of funding, but that is for another day.

For any party to get into government it needs votes from all areas of society.

growstuff the Broader Labour Movement is a wide-based socialist organisation which is governed and maintained by those who join and contribute to its upkeep.

In the above, it is no different from the Conservative Party or the LibDems in its relationship to the overall electorate in Britain.

So are other organisations, such as the Fabian Society.

You haven't answered MOnica's question - or, at least, you seem to be confirming what she's suggesting.

M0nica, the Labour Party and the trades unions are both part of one Labour movement in the United Kingdom.

The phrase "Broader Labour Movement" is one you use a lot Grandad. What exactly do you mean? Surely the important movement is the people who actually vote for Labour, which enables the party to form a government.

The trades unions have approximately six million members, many of whom aren't even traditionally "working class". The MPs of any political party in power need over 14 million supporters.

The structure of the Labour Party National Executive isn't written in stone. If the interests of six million are dominant, they're not representing the majority of supporters. Politically, trades unions are lobbying groups in the same way as groups such as the CBI are.

Below is a breakdown of seats on the Parliamentary Labour Party National Executive along with the organisations and affiliate organisations that hold those seats.

As can be seen, the Labour Party is very much an integral part of the wider labour movement which very much includes the trade unions.

List of seats begins here which was as attended prior to the coronavirus closedown:-

Chair: Andi Fox
Vice-Chair: Ian Murray
Leader: Jeremy Corbyn MP
Deputy Leader: VACANT
Treasurer: Diana Holland
Chair of Equalities: Ann Henderson
Shadow Frontbench: Jon Trickett MP
Shadow Frontbench: Rebecca Long-Bailey MP
Shadow Frontbench: Diane Abbott MP
Shadow Scottish Frontbench: Richard Leonard MSP
Welsh Labour Representative: Mick Antoniw AM
Young Labour: Lara McNeill
BAME Labour: Vacant
Div. I – Trade Unions: Mark Ferguson (Unison)
Div. I – Trade Unions: Howard Beckett (Unite)
Div. I – Trade Unions: Andi Fox (TSSA)
Div. I – Trade Unions: Pauline McCarthy (Bakers)
Div. I – Trade Unions: Michael Wheeler (Usdaw)
Div. I – Trade Unions: Wendy Nichols (Unison)
Div. I – Trade Unions: Andy Kerr (CWU)
Div. I – Trade Unions: Tom Warnett (GMB)
Div. I – Trade Unions: Jayne Taylor (UNITE)
Div. I – Trade Unions: Kathy Abu-Bakir (GMB)
Div.I – Trade Unions: Ian Murray (FBU)
Div. I – Trade Unions: Mick Whelan (ASLEF)
Div. I – Trade Unions: Joanne Cairns (USDAW)
Div. II – Socialist Societies: James Asser
Div. III – CLPs: Huda Elmi
Div. III – CLPs: Yasmin Dar
Div. III – CLPs: Rachel Garnham
Div. III – CLPs: Ann Henderson
Div. III – CLPs: Jon Lansman
Div. III – CLPs: VACANT
Div. III – CLPs: VACANT
Div. III – CLPs: Darren Williams
Div. III – CLPs: Pete Willsman
Div. IV – Labour Councillors: Nick Forbes
Div. IV – Labour Councillors: Alice Perry
Div. V – PLP/EPLP: George Howarth MP
Div. V – PLP/EPLP: Margaret Beckett MP
Div. V – PLP/EPLP: Shabana Mahmood MP

In addition, the PLP Shadow Chief Whip (Nick Brown MP), and PLP Chair (John Cryer MP) attend ex-officio without a vote.

Grandad1943 are you agreeing that the unions have a large number of seats on the National Executivebecause they fund and underpin the party?

M0nica, in regard to your above post, the Parliamentary Labour Party are part of the Broader Labour movement in the country of which the trades unions are also a part.

For evidence to the above just look at the structure of the Labour Party National Executive where the trades unions hold a large number of seats on that body along with other affiliate organisations.

Can you explain how it is consistent to support the LP but not support the unions which fund and underpin the party?

Are you saying he who pays the piper calls the tune? That sounds distinctly undemocratic.

Iam64 you expressed the opinion that Annie had consistently expressed her views as I don't understand what is consistent about them I thought you might explain it to me. Don't worry if you can't.

Rather than pursuing Annie in person, I am happy to challenge and keep challenging her extremism which is rarely based on any real understanding of the facts or impartial view of the bits and pieces she has picked up. The constant repetition is boring and annoying. If I - who you are obviously taking a pot at Iam - am boring you and annoying you, I have had a good tutor.

Whitewavemark2
Yes, I agree - that's my understanding of the position also.

Trisher, why do you ask me to explain how it’s consistent to support the LP but not support the unions. I assume that’s a question you’re posing for Annie. Unless I’ve said something and forgotten.

Iam 64

Well said.

Iam64 no one is "pursuing" anyone. I have been vigorously questioned and often castigated for my views and I always try to explain them. I don't claim to believe one thing and then post views which conflict. Can you explain how it is consistent to support the LP but not support the unions which fund and underpin the party?

I don’t feel the wool is pulled over my eyes by Anniebach. More like her views have been consistently expressed for a long time now. We often disagree on here but im often puzzled by how necessary some find it to pursue her. Ah well, each to our own

Labour wouldn't be much of an opposition if it didn't hold the government to account for its actions.
Clearly many mistakes were made at the beginning of this outbreak, and we now need more transparency and evidence behind decision making.