To "Deal with personal matters at home"
This man is a dangerous fool .Maybe somebody can tell me WHY he's PM whe he neither wants or accepts the responsibility of the job !
Eloethan, I think you meany to reply to Maddyone, but whilst I’m on, could I ask if you read the facts as set out by the Dept of Health? Some of the issues you mention are covered in it.
healthmedia.blog.gov.uk/2020/04/19/response-to-sunday-times-insight-article/
Are you disputing the dates and the events that that I summarised from the article in the Times yesterday Glorybee?
I don't think saying "they would say that wouldn't they" is a "nasty" response. Gove previously said that Johnson was not "fit to be PM" but now that Gove has a senior position in the Cabinet, his view has miraculously changed. Many, many scientists, epidemiologists and other senior medical people are saying this government was slow and complacent with regard to the threat this virus posed, and the situation with regard to PPE and testing has gone from bad to worse. Up until his own illness, Johnson never seemed to grasp the seriousness of the situation, hence his shaking hands with all and sundry after advising others not to.
Glorybee
Thank you for that. When I pointed out that The Times article was said to be wrong by the government, I got the response ‘well they would say that wouldn’t they?’ A nasty response in my opinion. If Boris Johnson came out with a magic wand, waved it and made everyone miraculously cured, there’d still be complainers about him on here.
What don’t people understand about him being unwell and now recuperating, it’s not rocket science.
He missed the Cobra meetings in January/Feb before he was sick.
After winning the election Boris could not be seen.
First he went off for a expensive holiday in the Caribbean. Then he had another holiday in a stately 350 acre mansion in Kent.
He did not even bother to go to flooded areas in Britain. It took him a while before he he went there.
Missing 5 Cobra meetings in a row is inexcusable.
He was very laid back and did not take corona virus seriously i.e did not put a plan to tackle it in time and of course now that he is recovering he has delegated the conferences etc to the ministers.
Hope he will get better and be a leader and PM that he was chosen for
There is a clear rebuttal of the Sunday Times article today by the Dept of Health. I did put up a post about it but it seems to have been overlooked! The link, should anyone want to view the other side of the coin on this matter is healthmedia.blog.gov.uk/2020/04/19/response-to-sunday-times-insight-article/
Well in all fairness, I can’t say I disagree Eloethan, it’s simply with hearing about fake news, I’m not in a position to say whether the article in The Times is correct or not, and media don’t exactly have a whiter than white reputation do they?
So who is a normal citizen supposed to believe?
maddyone Well as Mandy Rice-Davies was purported to have said: "They would say that, wouldn't they".
He`s been ill so i would imagine he was too ill to be at any meetings.
The information from the article from The Times has been denied officially by the government.
Immunity - by herd contact or recovery. Judging by other cold or flu epidemics immunity is not likely to be long lasting, which is why we are advised to have a flu vaccination every year. Covid 19 is behaving like a common cold virus but much more infectious and we are all relying on our own immune systems to fight it off. The NHS are treating the worst affected as best they can.
Apart from vaccine research there are many trials being done how best to treat the symptoms, that would seem to be the best short term way of reducing the death rate.
The article in the Times today sets out quite clearly how this government has failed the country in dealing with this deadly outbreak.
Summarising that article:
On 31 December the WHO was told of the unusual and dangerous illness that had struck Wuhan..
By 3 January the virus had spread to six countries.
On 17 January Professor Neil Ferguson stated the news of cases reported outside of China as being "worrying" in that it "suggested substantial human-to-human transmission.
On 22 January a meeting of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies was convened. On the same day Chinese scientists warned that the virus had an unusually high infectivity rate.
On 24 January there was a Cobra meeting. (Boris Johnson did not attend - he was at a function relating to the Chinese community - he did not attend four subsequent meetings).
Matt Hancock (who stood in for him) "bounced out of Whitehall and breezily told reporters the risk to the UK public was "low"," despite a study published in The Lancet in which Chinese doctors compared the virus to the Spanish flu outbreak of 1918, and despite receiving a warning from Professor Ferguson that a lockdown was essential. Flights into the UK from Wuhan and other Chinese cities continued (until March).
On 29 January two Chinese nationals fell ill with the virus at a hotel in York.
On 30 January the WHO declared the virus to be a global emergency.
Our official scientific advisers had faith that the country's plans for a pandemic would be effective. However several other emergency planners argued that although the British pandemic plan was excellent, The Cygnus exercise in 2016 had listed many shortages brought about by austerity which would affect the plan's effectiveness. These criticisms re significant shortages were never addressed.
An essential part of the pandemic plan is apparently to identify anyone who becomes ill and prioritise the tracing of any of their contacts so that they can be put in quarantine. When a Sussex businessman was identified as having the virus on 6 February, all his contacts were tested.
However, influenced by the government's plan to follow the "herd immunity" route, favoured by Dominic Cummings and backed up by Chris Whitty, the focus on testing was not seen as vital and no steps were taken to increase the supply of tests.
During all this time, no steps were taken in the early weeks to urgently procure personal protection equipment. The first order was made on 30 January, by which time producers were inundated with orders from around the world. At this time of dire warnings re shortages, on 24th February Downing Street admitted that the UK government had actually sent PPE supplies to China!
"A senior department of health insider described the sense of drift witnessed during those crucial weeks in February: "We missed the boat on testing and PPE".
Towards the end of the second week of February, Johnson said everyone "should be confident and calm" about Britain's response to the virus. He then headed for a 12-day "working holiday" at Chevning with his fiancee. During this time risk specialists and disease specialists were voicing concerns that the NHS would be overrun during a pandemic as it could not do 1,000 tests a day.
On 25 February Johnson returned to London for the Conservatives' big fund raising ball. By this time he had missed 5 Cobra meetings.
On 26 February there were 13 known cases in the UK and ministers were warned through another advisory committee that the country was facing a catastrophic loss of life unless drastic action was taken. They said an immediate lockdown was needed.
By 28 February there were 19 cases in the UK and Johnson announced that he was attending a meeting with Cobra - after a weekend at Chequers with his fiancee.
At the Cobra meeting on 2 March a "battle plan" was drawn up to contain, delay and mitigate the spread of the virus- five weeks after the first Cobra meeting. There was then a further nine days' delay as Johnson and his advisers debated what measures were required. Then Johnson (ignoring the advice to avoid shaking hands) contracted the virus himself.
How can anyone honestly say that this crisis has been handled with the efficiency and urgency that it so obviously required?
On the other hand Maizie I completely agree with your post of 21.59.
It has been reported that Britain sent a large amount of PPE to China in January/February this year. That’s a very noble and normally correct thing to do. However tonight my Son in Law, a doctor has gone to work and he has only two masks for the whole shift. My daughter has been texting me, her anxiety levels are through the roof about him, about herself, also a doctor, because although she had PPE at work, it is now dangerously low and she’s working tomorrow. She’s also anxious because the school has sent through masses of work for the children and they will not be there to teach them. The school is no longer providing teachers, presumably must be unqualified staff, and cannot guarantee care for her children long term even though they are both key workers.
When the country claps the NHS workers do they have a clue how stressed and anxious they are, not just about their jobs, but their household arrangements when grandparents have been told they’re not allowed to help. Her anxiety levels make me just want to say bring the children here we’ll take care of them and teach them.
Maizie
I am not making up fake news. I saw Keir Starmer this weekend on SkyNews asking when we are going to start to have an end to lockdown.
One of the most irritating aspects of these discussions is the number of posters who say that no-one could have foreseen this, or, no-one knew what would happen.
It is the business of governments to be constantly aware of possible threats and to plan for them. The possibility of a pandemic has been on the cards for many years now and, at one time, UK governments seriously planned for them.
The ST article makes this clear. It also makes clear that the UK government had lost its grip on emergency planning for a health crisis. We (i.e. I and other posters) have noted several times before on these forums the Exercise Cygnus in 2017 which concluded that the NHS would fail catastrophically in a pandemic situation but nothing was done about it.
The general public might be ignorant about these things but the government has absolutely no need or right to be ignorant. What on earth do people think a 'government' is actually in place for?
From the article:
While a possible pandemic had been listed as the No 1 threat to the nation for many years, the source says that in reality it had long since stopped being treated as such.
Several emergency planners and scientists said that the plans to protect the UK in a pandemic had once been a top priority and had been well-funded for a decade following the 9/11 terrorist attacks in 2001. But then austerity cuts struck. “We were the envy of the world,” the source said, “but pandemic planning became a casualty of the austerity years when there were more pressing needs.”
I think the 'source' is putting it kindly in the last sentence...
I agree with Hetty, the clues were there and were ignored by the Government, I can only shake my head and despair of the needless lives that have been lost, all those families grieving , it's desperately sad
To answer Paddyanne's OP, Johnson is PM of this country, which happens to be in the throes of a national emergency. If he had personal matters at home, then he should have dealt with them in his own time, not at the expense of people's' lives
He has blood on his hands
Marmadoit, you say 'No one could have foreseen this' - yet we did see it coming, looming large, first in China, then in Europe.
Still, our government dithered and did too little, too late. It was seen by the rest of the world! The sheer arrogance of deciding to ignore the WHO's advice cost us dearly - in lost lives!
Although “herd immunity” is not what we want to hear, that will probably happen before a vaccine becomes available.
Well, I'm afraid, David that herd immunity by means of the greater proportion of the population catching the virus is not looking at all promising. Research I've seen reported has found either very few antibodies, or no antibodies at all in a significant number of recovered Covid19 patients. This leaves them wide open to re-infection.
It also doesn't auger well for a vaccine as vaccines depend on the body making antibodies to be effective.
At best, it seems that we may have to be constantly vigilant and live our lives a bit differently for a considerable time...
Although “herd immunity” is not what we want to hear, that will probably happen before a vaccine becomes available. The lock down is meant to slow down transmission, at present we seem to be on a plateau, following the infection profile that Italy and Spain had. The NHS is managing to treat those that need hospitalization, so from that point of view the strategy has been correct, even if PPE is inadequate.
Belgium is the most densely populated European state and they are having major problems too, Germany and particularly Austria are doing much better and are beginning to return to work.
With hindsight the UK should have closed its borders more quickly, on the other hand there were so many Brits overseas that was probably impractical. The next 6 week will be critical let’s hope and pray control is maintained.
Keir Starmer needs to back the elected governmet and the experts.
He needs to sort the Labour party out and make them electable again. That is the only way they will become an effective opposition.
I want to see a Labour government again in my life time. If corvid 19 spares me!
Keir Starmer is not pushing for a date for the end of lockdown, maddyone. Will you stop making up fake news.
He is asking for a clear exit strategy. It's a perfectly reasonable request.
And now, to add insult to injury, we have a pack of journalists and Keir Starmer pushing for a date for the end of lockdown. It’s unbelievable! They want to know when schools will reopen!!! You cannot have social distancing in schools! You cannot run schools safely with large numbers of staff unable to attend! I think it was GagaJo who said on another thread that anyone who thinks social distancing is possible in schools either has never been in a school or doesn’t have children, or both!
I’ve already said this on another thread but I’ll say it again on here. My daughter sent me the article from The Times today, MaizieD posted the link up thread. It confirmed what I have felt all along, we were far too slow off the mark with this, everything was done too late. The advice from SAGE which includes Chris Whitty, but we are not allowed to know who else is on this committee, apparently it’s top secret, I’ve no idea why, but anyway the advice from SAGE was that the country should be allowed to acquire ‘herd immunity.’ It’s being denied now, but I sat and watched the press release, it was televised and I watched them telling us that the SAGE scientists had advised we be allowed to develop herd immunity. It was completely the opposite of what the WHO was advocating, and it was not in line with any other country in the world. We continued down that irresponsible role for a week or two, before thankfully changing course when it was realised just how many deaths there would be and how overwhelmed the NHS would be. I blame SAGE and Chris Whitty for their callous advice to the government. How could anyone expect the government to behave responsibly when being advised by a committee with so little respect for life.
I do realise that England is not the only country in the UK. But it does have the largest population by far. It is England's figures that push the total up.
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