Hospital staff snub Prime Minister

As far as care homes are concerned, weren't hospitals told to empty as many beds as possible in preparation for the expected influx of C19 patients?

Didn't we have a poster strongly defending the move to send C19 patients back to their care home on the grounds that there wasn't much a hospital could do for them and it was better for them to die in familiar surroundings? (And the care home should have all the necessary PPE, palliative medication and nursing skills)

Then we had the debate on whether care homes were cash cows for millionaire owners who cut staffing and equipment to the bone and who were thus completely responsible for care home deaths?

Or was it up to the LAs ,who had to send some old people there, because they don't have their own care homes, to keep a check on standards.

Or were there some genuine and dedicated care home owners who were struggling financially and for whom the care of C19 patients was a last straw for which they couldn't afford to be prepared?

But, of course, it was in no way the responsibility of the government because, despite having a Department of Health and Social Care, social care isn't their remit because it's mostly all privatised...

So many conflicting stories. So many dead old people...

Rates are already going up Jane. Rate of infection in my area has gone up by 0.4% in the last week. With the population of my area, that is over 1000 people.

1000 more people with C19. Schools should NOT be opening.

Some eminent scientists think a second wave isn’t inevitable MaizieD. Please don’t ask me for a link. I read it in one of the newspapers this morning. Someone high up - previously with the WHO?

Why don't you think we'll get a second wave, Jane10?

If we were in a country which had a rigorous test, trace and isolate programme in place I might agree with you that it's not inevitable. But in the UK?

Not sure why anyone would think the thread title needs changing when my post made it clear and the link itself, states it’s about Belgium.

I brought it to the table so that we could see that it’s not just in Wales and UK generally that people think those managing are making mistakes.

Two-thirds of care homes are free of C-19 (according to Jenny H.... (?Harries) from PHE on television last week).

One scientist's view does not equal a definitive and absolutely factual account of the future, Ug.

I'd not be pinning any hopes on him/her...

I brought it to the table so that we could see that it’s not just in Wales and UK generally that people think those managing are making mistakes.

Reading felice's post it looks to me as though the protest is political rather than about government errors. The BBC item, which I read earlier this morning, really doesn't give much detail, does it.

Though, of course 'political' is a matter of interpretation isn't it? e.g. Our teachers are being accused of being 'political' because they don't want to 'reopen' schools to all pupils (let's not forget that most schools have actually been open *all the time*) until they can be confident that both staff and pupils will be safe. What looks like sense to some people looks like 'political' to others...

I wonder if felice might come back and give us some more detail?

What more do you want, Belgium, is a complicated country, 4 regions, different regional governments plus a Federal government.
Even Brussels which is in Flanders has it's own regional one. Then you have local Communes(districts) which have their own by-laws.
For instance, we can have BBQS here but the neighbouring Commune cannot. There are 19 Communes in Brussels all different. One border runs up our street, when my SILs Mother bought this house there was a park opposite, she got a guarantee there would be no building on it, 5 years later a very large Sheraton Hotel was built. Different Commune she was not local and discovered her guarantee meant nothing, the boundaries had been changed.
The Health service is excellent, as I have posted before, Health insurance required ours is 6.45€ a month per person. Including Dental as long as you go for regular check ups.
If anyone has any specific questions please make them concise, making bread just now then in the garden for the afternoon.

My post was to present an alternative view from the doom and gloom. There may well be local local fluctuations but they go down as well as up. London has had a massive reduction in cases. Italy is open again after 10 weeks.
It might, just, be OK. Time will tell.

I agree Jane10 we can't hide away for ever. We have to start a gradual return to work, school etc.
I feel guilty saying this as I am retired and my grandchildren grown up, but the economy and other health issues have to be considered.

felice, There are people on here that no matter what, this country, this government, Boris in particular is the worst in every respect in the whole wide world including China and North Korea! You will never convince them otherwise and tbh you're wasting time and effort trying!!! Most of us have given up and just let others rabbit on!!
Your explanation was interesting and revealing proving that this is an international problem with different untried ways of resolution, and that one size doesn't fit all!! It would seem that the virus dislikes sunlight and hot weather. Perhaps this is a factor that has helped some countries. We need a hot summer?!! (Query to felice in the interests of not getting shouted at!)

I think I am just so fed up of Brussels bashing, the EU institutions are only a small area of the city, and do not even bring that much income to it as a lot of the staff tend to stick to the area around the offices and also within their own national groups.
I once worked for a man who did not know how to get from the EU quarter into the city centre, he had lived here for 7 years.!!!!!! 3 stops on the Metro or a 35 minute walk.
Also people working there do not pay tax here but when the buildings need renovated i.e. the Berlaymont it was the city which picked up the bill, no rents are paid on the office buildings either.
So if I get a bit shirty when I hear Brussels being blamed for all of the UKs woes, please excuse my reaction, not.

No shouting, I just switch my laptop off when in the garden and do not have a smart phone, so meant if anyone has any questions they need to come quick.
The weather has been beautiful since lockdown only one week of rain, but Brussels tends to be a city of apartments. We are lucky with a city garden, and there are lots of parks too. but no travelling to the coast or the countryside.
No time limits on going out but it is a Medieval city so walking around can be a bit of a dance.

Please, felice, can you explain exactly what the hospital staff were demonstrating about. You just said 'political' in your original post, which doesn't really explain anything.

I was interested that you said that many deaths in Belgium are being recorded as 'C19' deaths and that the numbers may diminish when the results of autopsies are known. A lot of people in the UK are convinced that all other countries are under reporting their deaths (to make the UK look worse than it is, is their unspoken sub text), but you seem to be saying that Belgium is over reporting...

Belgium makes a bit of a habit of going for periods with a government, don't they? I seem to recall they did it a few years ago.

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Jane10 In NHS the RMO is key (responsible medical officer). Surely they have some responsibility here?

I agree up to a point. They should take responsibility. But I think too that what should be a process of clinical decision-making between doctor and patient is sometimes (often?) unduly influenced by management/government orders.

Re your other point about a second wave, I was listening yesterday to a webinar by Dr Malcolm Kendrick. Amongst other things, he thinks it quite possible that COVID will just ‘fizzle out’ because that’s what other viruses have done in the past.

At last....most posters now realise the thread is about Belgium!
It was clear from the outset of course.?
Gillybob you don’t need to explain anything at all, it’s others who need to read threads properly ( perhaps some need to go to Specsavers.)

Yes they do, and strangely enough we don't really notice it as it is the Federal one not the regional ones who run the day to day stuff. The King can also sign major bills, i.e. taxes.
It would take all day to go into the political stuff, as it also takes in the history of the country, and the recovery from 2 world wars being fought here. 3 official languages does not help as they are unbelievably stubborn, my SO is Flemish and will purposely use Flemish when calling a Walloon company and it is vice versa.
The other language is taught in schools here, and I have know people take there Children off school on the days of the classes to protest.
There is also a German Canton just to throw another spanner in the mix.
OK, garden now, SIL just put some cold beers on their terrace.

Any respiratory death here has been counted so there is bound to be an evening out eventually.

SARS generally has fizzled out although it possibly had a much higher death rate than COVID19 but a lower reproductive rate. MERS had a much higher death rate but a far lower reproductive rate.

I regret that I am still none the wiser as to precisely what the Belgian hospital staff were demonstrating about... Oh well...

Spanish flu had two 'waves' over 2 years and the second was much worse than the first. I wouldn't place any dependence on this virus 'fizzling out' (though I'd be delighted if it did)

So, did you just come on this thread to sneer at people for not sticking to Belgium, lemon?
Such a very useful contribution to the discussion...

My post was in response to Janea and Jane10 and was making the point that the reason SARS fizzled out was because it had a low reproductive rate although the death rate was higher than this virus.

However, that is not the same for COVID19. The reproductive rate is higher.
And it would also depend on how or if it will mutate.

Ok MaizieD
Belgium is a very militant country with the Unions holding a lot of sway. The protest was organised by members of a union, there are lots of them to protest against current government policy, politics as I explained.
To hold any kind of strike here you need to give notice and the strike or protest cannot last officially longer than 24 hours.
The unions pay their members to strike, it used to be 50€ a day, not sure now.
When I was running a bar in the EU area we used to make a months money on a strike day as the unions would bus people in from all over the country and as long as they signed in on arrival they got paid, then spent the money on beer !!!!
Our local Delhaize(large supermarket) went on strike for 2 days at the beginning of lockdown, no proper PPE for the staff, it was unofficial . The PPE was provided and has NEVER been used, I have stopped shopping there due to the staff attitude and breaches.
The Hospital was against the current non-governments attitude to health care issues. Not aimed specifically at C19.

Hospital protest, like I said at the beginning Political.

Thanks for your patience, felice .
I understand that there is union unrest, but what I don't understand is , what is the current government policy that the unions are objecting to?

50 euros a day sounds like amazing strike pay! My DD has been taking part in the University staff strikes here in the UK over the past few months and she gets nothing... Where do the unions get that sort of money from?