Will the divisions in the UK ever be healed?

Divisions, or differences of opinion freely expressed, are the sign of a healthy democracy. Where uniformity of opinion and political leanings are suppressed you have a dictatorship. Dictatorships have a history of being oppressive and demanding conformity on pain of severe punishment.

Give me divisions every time.

lemongrove I must chip in here and congratulate you on such a sensible post !!

Why, thank you gangy ? I’m often a lone voice in the wilderness, I realise.?

Georgenottheoldone,

What about the French Resistance , Poland, Belgium, Greece, Norway, Czechoslovakia, Malta.

Many more countries supported Britain back in 1939 to 1945.

Who do you think would be there to support us if, God forbid, there should be another war ?

All those in power at the time of WW2 have long passed on so to attach any responsibility to the present generations of Europeans is flawed. The European Coal, Iron and Steel Federation which morphed into the EU came about to ensure that never again would there be a major conflict in Europe. By breaking up the EU, faults and all, we are risking that peace which has lasted more or less in tact for over 70 years. The gap between WW1 and WW2 was just 21 years.

The Germans have become the leading European nation because they have worked hard and been governed well since WW2. The fact that Britain may have fallen behind is down to the British and our political system. Harking back to days of Empire when Britain was the world's strongest power does us no favours. Every British leader since WW2, except for Boris Johnson, has recognised that we need to be part of Europe. Theresa May, a European at heart, was handed a poison chalice by David Cameron, she gave up because in the end she realised Brexit could not be delivered.

The current government has messed up Covid-19 from the start for reasons well known. They had evidence from South Korea, Taiwan and the WHO which they chose not to follow at the cost of at least 20,000 lives. To them Brexit took priority over evrything including preparation for Covid-19 which they knew was coming.

That is why I and many of my fellow citizens feel ashmed of our Government hell bent on destroying a once great nation for reasons best known to themselves.

Few if any WW2 veterans are Brexiteers because they remember just how awful war was. I was born just after D-Day, though I do not remember much before 1950 I do remember rationing, bomb sites in Liverpool and other after effects of WW2 well enough not to risk a repeat.

Brexit doesn’t matter any more does it.
The Corona virus disaster is going to overshadow any gain or loss due to Brexit. We are all in the same boat now, it’s up to us all to make the best of whatever state the economy is in over the next few years.

Brexit does matter, since the promises made in 2016 were undeliverable. Johnson's lies at the election that he had an “oven ready deal”‘ when he actually had no deal are coming back to bite him on the bum when the economy is already taking a massive hit. How many of those who voted for Brexit have since died I wonder?

Personally Growstuff I think it was deliberate manipulation. As we know, there is a strong link between the economic distress of declining cities and Vote Leave. This was an EU election in which Boris Johnson, Farage et al said they were with “the people” - and they still say it now (remember the “Parliament v. People” and we are “all in this together “?). They implied that just like the people they were suffering under the EU.

I see it as a deliberate political construct used for the electoral purposes of Boris Johnson. He had always wanted the top job and used the brainpower of Mr. Cummings to get him there. These two, the single-minded driven brains and the gregarious frontman, were given an easy goal in the light of the Labour Party’s divisions and their more complex message. The simplicity of the message shone out. People were persuaded they knew what they were doing because the message was so clear.

Davidhs - I don’t think Brexit ever mattered to Boris Johnson. It was the peg on which he hung his hat in order to become PM.

The coronavirus is however likely to be the peg on which a poor Brexit outcome will be blamed. Oh! And the EU itself, of course!

vegansrock, totally agree with you, I just hope it's not too late to do something about it. If we had another referendum (they will not let us have one) the result would almost certainly be reversed. As you say many older leave voters have died, 4 years worth of younger voters deserve a say in their future. Given a better informed choice those of us those who voted in 2016 have the right to change our minds, either way. If Boris and co were so convinced in their case why didn't they have the courage to allow a "People's Vote".

As I was writing his Davidhs has said it as it is. Boris just wanted to be PM and Coronavirus can be blamed when it all goes wrong. The outcomes of evrything matter very much to us all.

lemongrove I'm with you on your previous comment. I think divisions can heal, once we get through this. I don't think the media will come out of this well. And if the great British public can be as sceptical about the press and the twitterati as they are about Government that would be a healthy start. A great line from Life of Brian comes to mind. "You are all individuals you don't have to follow the crowd". Let Parliament hold the government to account through its committees and a competent opposition. Papers report, and good journalism highlight injustice armchair experts go back to their day job, and perhaps there is a chance.

Tooting29 You cannot be serious. Many of the great British public aren't sceptical of the press at all. That is why we are in the current parlous situation. In the main we believe what we are told - by press and politicians.

We now seem to have a competent opposition, certainly an improvement on the current front bench. But we need a press to hold the govt to account.

Wayhay! When's the first flight to North Korea? It would appear some GNers would love living there. Criticism of the glorious leader is strictly forbidden.

Maybe somebody needs to remind you Tooting that we live in a democracy. Everybody is entitled to vote and make decisions, having informed themselves. They're also entitled to opinions.

I agree with you NotSpaghetti and I sincerely hope those constituencies remember why they voted and hold the man and his party to account.

I also think it's why Johnson and Cummings will both resign before the nitty gritty of Brexit has to be delivered. The plain truth is they can't deliver what they promised.

Strangely, a YouGov poll done 10 days ago (so before the Cummings debacle) showed that Johnson is more popular with people who identify as working class than those who identify as middle or upper class.

growstuff

Funny that. Perhaps it's the standing around in pubs with a pint (like Farage) and wearing hard hats. Just like the workers. There was a brief moment when he started to talk about the end of austerity that I thought perhaps he'd be OK - give him the benefit of the doubt. But that moment didn't last long. Now I see an ulterior motive in everything, he or the rest of his chronies say.

Yes, I thought (very briefly) that he understood why areas of the country have been so "left behind" and that there was some kind of plan.

However, it didn't take long to realise it was all BS and the promises were all empty. Huge figures have been mentioned, but look under the surface and there's always a catch. Some of the figures are blatant lies - such as the (however many it was) new nurses and police recruitment. The figure for investment in schools is a lie too. Schools are actually due to receive less per pupil, especially in the more deprived areas and for special needs. Local government grants have been cut, especially in poorer areas, which is cunning because the local authorities get the blame. I could go on … I actually think it's worse than Thatcherism.

Look at the contracts which have been handed out to cronies of him or Cummings or the appointments which have been made to senior jobs.

The bumbling clown image is a sham to cover up just how "croniest" and "elitist" he is. I honestly do think he'll come unstuck. Maybe the people who identify as working class believed the BS when they cast their vote. They certainly want Brexit, even though it will harm them more than most. BUT they're not stupid. I think they will realise what's going on. The other side of the coin is that the Conservatives are polling less well than they have in the shires and towns which aren't old industrial towns.

I should have added that, one way or other, I think pensioners will be hit by new austerity measures, which will reduce his fan base.

Oh, come come, growstuff. We've been assured by Pinocchio Johnson that austerity is over...

(I must be elite because I could spell Pinocchio correctly straight off without looking it up )

MaizieD ?

I’ve just typed Pinocchio in this post and sure enough when I got to the first ‘c’ predictive text did the rest..... can I join the club please??

On a serious note, not all pensioners voted Tory - I know dozens in my own family that wouldn’t!

Every single poll ever has showed that more pensioners voted Tory than for any other political party. Sorry, I don't know the breakdowns for Scotland, Wales and NI.

I doubt if all the polls are totally wrong.