Rebecca Long Bailey sacked by Keir Starmer

Yes Chewbacca it would certainly seem so.
Puzzling, ain’t it?

trisher

Chewbacca the reason Corbyn attracted so many supporters was because he took the Labour party back to its original beliefs and away from the watered down Toryism it had adopted during the Blair years, because if you are going to have two parties which are virtually indistinguishable from each other you aren't going to get people coming out to vote.
Momentum much as some may hate them are closer in beliefs to those of the original Labour Party.

Attracting far left support didn’t translate getting into power though did it?
....and actually you did get people coming out to vote.....against Corbyn!
Having tunnel vision about some sort of ‘pure’ Labour ideology for the LP to pursue simply means they would lose the next GE.

Chewbacca, it is very difficult to win elections when you have many within your own organisation working directly to ensure you will not win that election.

So no one but long-standing union members are allowed an opinion Grandad? I can't see how the LP can win on that basis.

I voted Labour in the last election because I was so afraid of a Dominic Cummings Tory Party taking over the country but I am not enamoured by unions I am afraid. I find them very old fashioned and, in most cases, you would be better off paying for Legal Insurance as far as I can see. Just my opinion of course but I am I feel the unions make a better pressure group than a party.

lemongrove so what do you suggest is the way to get the 50%who didn't vote in the Blair years out to vote. The percentage did increase when the Labour party became different. But there are still almost 40% who choose not to vote.

If you strip back to the absolute basics and look at what this actual debate is about it is this.

Corbyn lost the election with the lowest level of opposition seats since the 30s.

That is fact.

Now you may say that Corbyn had the worse press ever and that the right of theLabour party worked against him etc etc.

But the point is we are where we are.

Starmer got voted in with a big majority.

Now it would seem that the left are working against Starmer. As yet the press is largely leaving him alone, but give them time.

I think that I can make a fair assumption, that right, left or centre of the Labour Party want a Labour Government.

How on Earth we think we are going to achieve this acting as we are.

I hope that the “don’t leave organise” group decide that the best way to get a labour government they would like is to try and influence labour policy by compromise and sensible decisions, just as the right or centre should do.

Conspiracy theories, moaning and threats won’t cut it.

We need to act like the grownups in the room. It isn’t difficult to achieve with this government and it won’t go unnoticed by the electorate.

I very much doubt that many members who voted for Keir Starmer will have abandoned him because of his decision about RLB. He won the leadership with a decisive majority of Labour voters, he is ahead of Boris Johnson in the polls. Those who didn't like him in the first place won't agree with the RLB decision and still won't like him.
Nevertheless I think the zeitgeist is still with him.

GGumteenth Quote [ So no one but long-standing union members are allowed an opinion Grandad? I can't see how the LP can win on that basis. ]End Quote.

GGumteenth please demonstrate where I have stated the above in any of my posts in this thread?????

Excellent post whitewave

A new broom sweeps clean and Sir Keir may be the one to get back respect for the labour party that saw them lose so much in the last general election.

Mm it's difficult to see how Kier Starmer who is and always has been in favour of the EU is going to win votes in areas that wanted Brexit.

But trisher by the time we get to the next election Brexit will be 4 years old and the caravan will have moved on, almost certainly back to the huge economic divide in the country, which is getting worse every day.

It will also depend on whether those areas who wanted Brexit still think it was a good idea after it happens.

It might even be possible that by the next election the people who wanted brexit might have realised that they should have been far more careful what they wished for.

True Whitewavemark2 but those areas have long memories. Of course Starmer may not survive that long.

I have found the leaked report into antisemitism - didn't know it was so easy to find!

Grandad - the conspiracy theory (or theories) have already been given by you in your reply to Chewbacca:

"Chewbacca, it is very difficult to win elections when you have many within your own organisation working directly to ensure you will not win that election.

Corbyn also had an unprecedented media campaign ranged against him often based on lies fed to that media from within the right of the Labour Party.

We have witnessed national newspaper journalists openly congratulating themselves in recent weeks as to "what a job they did on Corbyn".

The above is why I feel there has been such a reaction within the Labour movement to the sacking of Rebecca Long-Bailey."

Of course there'll be a reaction to the sacking of RLB from Corbyn supporters but she threw her Shadow Cabinet position away through her hasty and ill-judged tweet, as has previously been said. The Labour Party doesn't need Shadow Ministers who embarrass themselves. Diane Abbott was bad enough!

The left will always make the excuses you have made as to why Corbyn lost the last election. They had four years to make the Corbyn experiment work but they failed because of his woeful performance as "Leader" and the policies in the manifesto which the majority of voters rejected.

If they were serious about winning elections the left should have chosen a more able and charismatic person as Leader instead of Corbyn who was none of these things and had no leadership qualities.

They repeated their mistake with choosing RLB as his successor. The majority of Labour Party members who voted in the leadership election did not support her or her "vision" for the future of the Labour Party. You and others who supported her as a successor to Corbyn just have to accept it.

Instead you talk of the unions withdrawing funds because Keir Starmer is too right wing despite the majority of Labour Party members voting in the leadership election preferring him as leader instead of RLB. Very telling!!!

trisher the red wall will vote as it did over brexit where it thinks its interests lie. If Starmer or whoever is the Labour leader, offers a better standard of living and secure employment, support for our public services etc. then the votes will go that way.

Whitewavemark2, in regard to your post @10:59 today, you state we are where we are in regard to the stance and status of the party, and in the main, I agree with that statement.

However, how the Labour Party arrived at where it is now is highly important for if, as is being alleged, a right-wing element within the PLP worked directly against a person who was elected twice as leader with the largest majority ever obtained in a leadership election, then that cannot be allowed to pass unchallenged.

For if the above were to go unchallenged the Parliamentary Labour Party no longer can be a broad-based democratic organisation but has become a one stance political organisation in the hands of an unelected few.

It is for now for those in the highest prominence within the PLP to decide its future. Do they wish to see true democracy maintained, or do they wish to see only a right-wing stance maintained with sometimes illegal action by unelected employees and officials being allowed to take place to maintain that stance?

The overall Labour movement in the country is based on totally democratic principles and if the Parliamentary Labour Party wishes to remain part of that, then it must demonstrate to all others within the movement that it is also fully democratic and any who act against that core principle will be brought to book.

Stamer had already worked against the above principle in not suspending from their employment all those who it is alleged carried out action against their own elected leader while the investigation is carried out.

Whitewavemark2 Could you explain that with regard to Sunderland and Nissan?

I could but I’d rather not? trisher

Although I seem to remember that there were dire warnings of the consequences of Brexit, refuted by the leave campaign, and presumably the red wall preferred to believe the leave campaign.

Currently, in the Opinium poll others have quoted, Starmer is more popular than Johnson in the so-called red wall constituencies.

Looking at seats gained in the 2019 election, Starmer leads on the best Prime Minister question amongst Labour seats in England and Wales that the Conservative gained in 2019; 41% think Starmer would make the best Prime Minister compared to 33% who think Johnson does.

It looks as though the former Labour voters who voted Conservative in the last election think they've made a mistake.

www.opinium.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Opinium-Political-Report-25th-June-2020.pdf

growstuff I think that is true over Brexit as well. All a bit late now.

I was just going to post the same figures!
From latest Opinium -
Voting intention in the seats won by CON at GE2019

CON 37%
LAB 50%
LD 8%

The line about “learning techniques from the IDF” is a well-known antisemitic trope.

In their hearts, I suspect many of those former Labour voters who voted Conservative hate Johnson's guts. They're not impressed by the clown act and and actually voted against the entitled elite, which he represents.

They were told that the EU is part of that entitled elite and didn't believe Nissan's management when they warned them they would pull out of Sunderland. They resented management too. I remember seeing some interviews with Nissan workers, who just thought the company was making empty threats.

Cummings understands the mentality. He's from Durham after all. Although he is part of an elite, it's a different elite. It's not the old boy old Etonian elite. He understood very well how to mobilise support amongst those who felt dispossessed. Farage understands that too.

The Conservatives couldn't really care less about the people who voted for them. All they care about is the votes they represent. In about three years, we'll see some eye watering infrastructure programmes, which will on the surface benefit dispossessed areas, in an effort to keep "buying" those votes.

Of course, when you drill down, it will be seen that it's all smoke and mirrors. The money will be money which has already been robbed for elsewhere or it will be presented to make it seem as though it's much more than it really is.

Starmer needs to be seen as the kind of person who has the same values as the people he hopes will vote for him and seems to be a person who will keep his promises and get things done. Lisa Nandy seems to understand that and, if I were Starmer, I'd be very keen to keep her onside.