Should there be a driving test and a cut off age?

One of my neighbours was over 80. He was an awful driver and his eyesight was failing. He was eventually talked into giving up his car. A few months later he was killed in a road accident on his bike. I suppose he would probably not have died if he'd been in his car, but then he might have killed a lot of other people.

Yes its RoSPA

I'm surprised people don't know about the driving assessments offered by (I think) ROSPA.
I took one when I turned 70 because my car is so essential here in the country where there are no busses (unless you're fit enough to walk over a mile carrying your shopping in rain and snow) and I wanted to know I was safe.
There are taxis if you can afford £5 each way to the nearest supermarket and these are hospital cars if you can spend most of the day waiting around for your transport - but you see the problem.
These tests for driving are not exactly pass/fail and they can't take your license - but I got some very helpful tips from the examiner(?) and she pointed out a few things that have changed since I took my test.
Why not Google it. Oh, at the moment its free.

As we age our reaction does get slower of course, there is a problem with having physical tests for older drivers, this would mean that all disabled drivers would have to perform to the same standards which is unreasonable. Confusion and mental ability is very difficult to define in a test and is not particularly age related.

The argument that if a person has no transport services they can rely on is spurious, if they are not safe they should not drive regardless. If this means they have to move, it is a better solution than injuring someone or worse. Relatives and friends just have to be vigilant with driving standards, eyesight in particular, the signs are always there.

are you watching 'our lives' on BBC1?

memory, reflexes and ability to act fast and adapt are also major problems, not just sight.

Davidhs

For the elderly it’s eyesight that is the main problem, there should be an eyesight certificate for drivers over 70 yrs and periodically reviewed. Most of us visit the optician regularly it would be no extra effort to do that, we all renew our car tax online every year, renewing our driving licence every 5 yrs would not be that big a deal.

It does appear that in a number of cases involving pensioners that eyesight is a cause.

It could be an easy fix, all over the age of 60 are currently entitled to a free eye test every two years whether they wear glasses or not. All pensioners over 70 have to renew their licence every 3 years so it would be simple that on licence renewal you have to supply a copy of your latest eye test.

A thought that does come to mind on accidents by pensioners where their vehicles appear to lurch forward or the wrong pedal has been pressed is how many of these vehicles are automatic and is this a contributory factor?

I know some who have very clear signs of Dementia/Alzheimer's, cataracts, glaucauma, and say 'oh I only drive locally and not at night'. If your judgement and reactions are seriously impaired, and driving based on trafiic rules from the 50s - and/or cannot see the road properly- including the child coming from the side- you should not be driving.

Very difficult. We live in a remote area. No buses, trains, or taxis. 15 miles to nearest shop, pharmacy. No deliveries.

People have to drive ,and do so into their 90's, as there is no alternative. As we are getting older, I would agree that a retest should take place at 80 and every 2 to 3 years after that. However if we failed at 80, we would have to leave our home so it will have repercussions for many.

For the elderly it’s eyesight that is the main problem, there should be an eyesight certificate for drivers over 70 yrs and periodically reviewed. Most of us visit the optician regularly it would be no extra effort to do that, we all renew our car tax online every year, renewing our driving licence every 5 yrs would not be that big a deal.

That’s a very worrying tale about your neighbour Spangler

At what point do family intervene in cases like that?

Yes that is true about the probationary period for new drivers which is a good thing.
It’s just that I look at the average 17 or 18 year old, and can’t help wondering if they have the maturity to be in control of what is a lethal weapon.

Both extremes of ages have their own problems don’t they?

JenniferEccles Sun 09-Aug-20 08:49:59
I haven’t read the whole thread so this point may have been made but teenage drivers cause far more accidents than very elderly folk.

Yes obviously I realise that there are far more of that age group on the roads but could there be a case for raising the age from 17 to say, 20 ?

Yes age, both young and old can get very emotive. The young are subjected to conditions that was never the case when I first started driving.

New drivers passing their first driving test are subject to a probationary period of two years. If they receive 6 penalty points or more within this period their licence will be revoked and they will have to retake their driving test.

Would such a stipulation to the elderly concentrate minds? I don't say that as a verbal hand grenade. An elderly neighbour of ours always switches his main beam on at night because he finds there isn't strong enough light to see clearly on dipped head lights. I can't get it through to him that he is dazzling the oncoming traffic. "But I can't see," he wails.

I haven’t read the whole thread so this point may have been made but teenage drivers cause far more accidents than very elderly folk.

Yes obviously I realise that there are far more of that age group on the roads but could there be a case for raising the age from 17 to say, 20 ?

After all we feel invincible in our teens don’t we? Couple that with the sense of bravado with newly qualified young lads with a car full of their friends to impress and you have a recipe for disaster.

Yes I know there have been tragedies involving the very elderly but it seems very unfair to me to make a cut off age when many very elderly folk are perfectly fit and healthy, mentally and physically.

No age barrier- but a strict test of basic health, eyesight and practical and therory for driving.

I think at the very least a regular eyesight test is called for.

Only the other day a man in his 80s crashed through a fence when parking, and went into the Meare at Thorpeness. It was a very busy day, people stand there to feed the ducks etc, and it is so lucky that no one was seriously hurt . He was given an eyesight test at the side of the road, which he failed, so his licence was revoked.

I wouldn't enjoy having to be retested but I do see the need for something. There are quite a few older people here who should not be driving, but as there is no public transport they carry on. Often they do one route, just to supermarket or doctors.

The reading of a number plate from however many yards away during a driving test needs reviewing. My husband could do this easily, yet is registered visually impaired. He has very little peripheral vision and is virtually blind in the dark. Not good for driving! But he passes the standard requirements for taking a driving test!.

It’s a tough question. My DF eventually stopped driving at 92, following a minor bump. It was heartbreaking when he brought me his car and handed over the keys - he felt all his independence had gone.

Personally I wouldn’t mind taking (at my own expense) some sort of driving assessment from 70+, but think it should be just that, an assessment and should result in certain recommendations, but not actually remove a licence, except in extreme circumstances. As others have said, health can vary from day to day, ‘nerves’ creep in too if it’s very important to an individual to have their licence. My family say I’m a pretty good driver, but I can’t parallel park for toffee!
Couldn’t when I was 17, never mind 70 - just lucky on the day of my test!

"Lolo81 Fri 03-Jul-20 17:21:52
My DH is a coach driver and since he turned 50 he has been required to undergo medicals (which we pay for) in order to maintain his professional licence. Off the top of my head it’s every 5 years he needs to go and be checked and I think that reduced down to bi-annually from 60."

That's correct Lola, all commercial drivers, that's those who have had to train to pass a special driving test, like truck and bus drivers, have to undergo a medical examination when their licence comes up for renewal, every five years. They also have to have an eye test. The medical must be performed by a doctor and the eye test by an ophthalmologist. Both examinations are rigorous and thorough.

As Lola pointed out, the time between examinations reduces at 60 to biannually, then at 65 it drops to annually.

Rather than a cut off age, it is feasible to apply the above criteria to older drivers. The DVLA would use the notes taken from the two examinations to assess whether or not the applicant can continue to drive.

Many of my clients are over 75, some in their 80’s and a couple in their 90’s.
I have cowered in my kitchen as they negotiate our gate, you do have to do a turn in off our drive but if a cement lorry can manage it!
We’ve lived here for 18years and never had a problem. My colleague and I keep threatening to produce a book as some of the parking is so bizarre. I think that quite a few wouldn’t pass any sort of test.
Keep practicing your manoeuvring all of you.

It’s not GPs as part of their NHS workload who should do the medical but an independent ( not known to the driver)doctor. Just as they do already for eg insurance. It’s private work and they get paid appropriately. Retesting should only be a last resort but a compulsory medical after a certain age is a good idea imo. As for insurance premiums, in general they increase at 75+ and 80+ so that should tell us something. Our current system is among the slackest in Europe.

I don’t think assessment by a GP is appropriate or helpful, really.
All they can do is state that on one particular day, you’re not suffering from any condition which might impair your driving. They haven’t sat with you in your car and had an opportunity to assess your driving skills, nor are they qualified to do so.

It’s difficult enough to get a GP appointment when you’re ill, without clogging up their appointment books even further.

The Older Drivers assessment mentioned by ExD and Madgran sounds a much better idea.

Davidhs - I think you miss my point. Whilst I agree that the experience of an older driver is valuable, based on even just the comments on this post there is concern about people using a licence when they shouldn’t. My opinion (and that’s all this is an opinion) is that the burden of keeping and using a licence should fall on the person using it (as with professional drivers). With that in mind it wouldn’t matter about 65 or 85 if the person is physically fit to continue driving. As the cost is testing is borne by the driver I don’t see the issue. I’m not suggesting retaking a driving test at all. But most of the issues around ageing drivers stem from failing health and that can be monitored in a more structured way, rather than the ad hoc approach taken just now.

Davidhs I agree. My son agreed with me I give up driving when my neck became too stiff to turn properly.

I bet the insurance companies have a pretty good idea about the answer to that question. If you add in that rich but ancient persons should not be able to buy their way into driving then there must be an age limit, sadly but that's life.

The accident rate for older drivers is very low, most are careful and experienced, it’s highly unlikely that a periodic compulsory retest scheme for older drivers will be brought in. The cost and administration of the sheer volume of tests would be prohibitive, even at 5 yr intervals. Individual abilities vary so much and it is likely that a medical condition limits the ability to drive safely, some may be unsafe at 65 others safe a 85.

GPs don’t want to get involved in stopping patients driving but it might work if they referred marginal individuals to a driving assessment. We can do a lot to check on older relatives even a simple “read that number plate at 20Meters” test often brings home how much they don’t see.