Does feminism mean the same now as it did in the 60's and 70's?

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SadieWord Pink used to be a boys colour, being a watered down version of red which was a masculine colour. Originally pink and blue were regarded as gender neutral colours, suitable for young children and to distinguish them from adults, rather than between the sexes. Towards the end of the 19th century parents began to dress girls in piink and boys in blue, although it's not sure why.

I think some of the changes that we thought had been secured, especially regarding gender stereotypes, have been eroded in recent years by what I’ve seen described as the pinkification of society. Despite having female role models in every career, unlike in my youth, girls today are bombarded with glitter, unicorns & fairies. Their clothes carry messages like ‘Be kind’ & ‘Little Princess’ while boys clothes describe them as ‘Mucky Monsters’ etc. Gone are the days of unisex Lego & adverts showing children of both sexes building models together. My 7 year old GD asked me just yesterday “Why do all the boys in my class say girls can’t play superheroes?’ She went on to say how sorry she felt for her friend (a boy) who says pink is his favourite colour “because the others laugh at him & say he’s a girl.” I think society has seriously regressed in this sense, even while making progress in other areas.

AJKW as I remember it there were a fair number of girls I knew who went on various diets- the banana diet etc, some had their hair straightened or permed, some wore undergarments that were designed to change their shape. I have no doubt those girls would now (and may even have in later life) have surgery or botox. Changing how you look isn't new, there are just different procedures.
NanCL How interesting. It must be an unusual hospital. The figure overal is 14% of surgeons are women. But in certain specialities like Trauma and Orthapaedic surgery it drops to 5%. The reason for that used to be that this was an area where strength was needed. The introduction of modern surgical equipment has made that untrue, but numbers remain low.

Your last paragraph rings bells, I watch young women today and it’s sad to see, but I believe they have made themselves slaves to bottox, fillers, unnecessary surgery, and more. It seems young women have less freedom now than we had as youngsters in the name of vanity. At no point did me or my friends feel the need to abuse our bodies in this way.

Reading some of the comments, I realise I was very fortunate. First and foremost my mother, born in 1906, was before her time. Aged twenty-one, and the only one of working age, she took on the responsibility of younger orphaned siblings, the youngest seven. All of them plunged from a comfortable home life provided by the family business into near destitution. She was not only my mother but also my inspiration and best friend. After WW2 and rationing easing, my girl’s school introduced cookery into the curriculum. My mother went to see the head to express her opposition. Her comment, I was later to discover “my daughter attends school to be educated, if I wanted a domestic servant, I could keep her at home” - just one of her many inspiring nuggets. Such was her opposition, limited family finance would not be funding the enterprise and never was. Like her, and thanks to her, I grew up knowing my own worth.

At the age of eighteen, I joined a company known for its paternalistic care and promotion of young staff both female and male. There was a six-month rota moving around administrative or scientific departments to access strengths and weaknesses. My first department on entering the company, salaries and wages, its staff consisting of three males, one over sixty and on the verge of retirement, another in his late fifties and the youngest about forty-five. After six months it was suggested the next move would be to the accounts department, and another group of middle-aged men.

By this time, I was familiar with the young female staff of the general office, all sitting behind typewriters, with painted fingernails and seemingly endless chatter. I thought I might enjoy some of this and suggested at my redeployment interview, all male, as the department I would like to join. The response “oh no, that is not for the likes of you - you have a long way to go”. Their assessment and consequence lead to a return to school every afternoon to prepare for accountancy exams and a wonderful inspiring professional life. A life as far removed from the company of men who provided the foundation and who saw an ability, I had no idea I possessed.

Did I ever feel unequal, the truthful answer is no. I never expected life to be made easy, and it wasn’t, but I have enjoyed it immensely.

I took out a mortgage in my own name in 1975. No problems!

It was grist to my mill. You were lucky to have an easier ride but then perhaps not so much to fight against.
After 3 years at the MRC I left science for the media finally becoming an editor in an educational publishers in Bloomsbury (via local newspaper and the Financial Times). I was never propositioned sexually and often spoke volubly about feminism fired from reading The Second Sex. I perhaps was favoured.
Possibly the strangest outcome was when I got married. I had never thought I would change my name but then I discovered that this old school educational publishers didn’t traditionally allow married women to stay on their staff. I was advised to keep my maiden name by my female commissioning editor. This was in the 70’s.
On the firms founding, after the First World War, it had employed many educated women who cut their hair - big issue and were suffragists. I became the editor of the house magazine and privy to its history and key to the library. Founded by philanthropic progressive aristos, perhaps it was a deal they made. Career or marriage not both. Interesting. For that reason being a born oppositionist I adopted my married name as that was the more radical thing to do! I know of no one else who did that!
Just keep fighting for what you know is just. We have never been in such a complex situation with women like Germaine Greer being cancelled and JK Rowling reviled. With trans- women insisting females who don’t transition are cis- women. Frightening times. We are still fighting to know what a woman is, we don’t need men trans or cis to tell us do we?

NannyC1

trisha
I am not sure where you live. In the hospital where I work we have a majority of women who are not only surgeons but are actually Consultant surgeons. Also we see more juniors coming through who are also women.

Only 14% apparently

Your hospital must be quite unusual if the majority of consultants are women

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jan/08/female-surgeons-frustrated-by-male-dominated-field-study-finds

trisha
I am not sure where you live. In the hospital where I work we have a majority of women who are not only surgeons but are actually Consultant surgeons. Also we see more juniors coming through who are also women.

I was lucky being one of two daughters and parents who felt that I should be encouraged to do what I wanted to do career wise. My mother was a little disappointed that I chose to go into nursing as she felt that was not quite 'nice'.

I joined the RAF in 1962 to do my training and was not aware of inequality in the workplace although, at that time, marriage was not forbidden for servicewomen, but definitely frowned upon. Pregnancy resulted in immediate dismissal. Women were not generally on the front line but, this was slightly different for nursing staff.

After having my daughter, I went back into nursing in 'Civvie Street'. Creche was subsidised as there was a shortage of trained staff. Whilst pay was equal for the sexes, during the 70s, 90% of all nursing staff were female but 90% of senior management were male.

My first job in 1977 was in a bank. The boys who joined as school leavers were funded to do the banking exams but girls were told they could do them if they wanted but had to pay the fees themselves. If you were over 30, married with children, the youngest at least 5 years old, you could apply for funding; some were granted funding and some weren't. You had to plead your case. Think wages were equal within banding but, as a girl, I was always doing a job one band above my pay grade from about 6 months in.

growstuff

Lol! OK!

Watching the mini diggers has become the highlight of my life. There are usually 2 or 3 burials a week (it's the town cemetery) and it's quite fascinating to watch how they're organised. The grave diggers also trim the hedges and drive around on sit-on mowers. It looks like quite a fun job (apart from in winter).

Lots of fresh air and in one of my favourite places!

Always been a fan of graveyards and often go down to our local one for a wander

I have been watching the birds during lockdown growstuff but each to their own

My mum was 39 when she had me and I remember being really surprised when she asked why I didn’t have ‘housekeeping’! My dad never wanted her to work so she’d always had ‘housekeeping’ from the day she married. I explained I was married and as we both worked it was totally unnecessary and archaic. She still couldn’t get her head round it though, bless her

Change was desperately needed - lots of posters have quoted experiences that seem almost unbelievable now, but I know they are true - I was on the receiving end often. Earning an equal salary, I was asked to wait while a shop assistant rang my husband to see if he would 'allow' me to sign an HP agreement for a washing machine. I was so enraged that I said I was intending to pay cash, although a credit agreement would have been a help to us newly weds! Sadly though I have seen a developing trend of real dislike for men, and what I feel are unreasonable attitudes. My husband was a senior manager responsible for staff, and on one occasion, under the impression that he might relieve some stress for a member of his team, he offered her an opportunity to think about which one of two new posts created in a reorganisation might fit better with her life. She was often late and wanted to leave early because of child care. She reported him to HR, and said male management shouldn't bring her home life into her working environment - in spite of the fact she complained loud and long every day about her difficulties. My husband had to agree to never mention her personal life again. This is the sort of situation where the balance has tipped too far - and in some instances I have felt rather sorry for the male.

In my young days starting work I was in female only positions so no males to compare with. Later returning to work and having studied I worked in roles that had equality for females, conditions pay etc. I have been fortunate I know not to have experienced discrimination in the workplace. I did thought still instill in ny late daughter that she was equal to any male and this was somethings she thanked me for in the letter read at her funeral service.

Lol! OK!

Watching the mini diggers has become the highlight of my life. There are usually 2 or 3 burials a week (it's the town cemetery) and it's quite fascinating to watch how they're organised. The grave diggers also trim the hedges and drive around on sit-on mowers. It looks like quite a fun job (apart from in winter).

growstuff

Oopsminty

growstuff

My house backs on to a cemetery. Digging a grave is no longer back breaking work, as they have a mini digger. One of the grave diggers is female. Why wouldn't there be female grave diggers?

Of course there are female grave diggers, growstuff

I did say that there were women who will do all the jobs I listed, which were just random.

The fact that everyone is saying they know a female grave digger, road sweeper is proving my point though

I don't actually know the grave diggers, but I've had plenty of time to observe them over the last few months. I don't really understand why they were on the list.

I don't really know either

I was just thinking of jobs that are usually done by men

And yet grannygranby, a student at school, lovely, hardworking but very NON academic boy, was convinced that he was going to be a doctor. Father was a doctor, as was grandfather and it was going to continue down the family line. God help anyone he ended up treating. He'd have a lovely bedside manner but no ability.

Oopsminty

growstuff

My house backs on to a cemetery. Digging a grave is no longer back breaking work, as they have a mini digger. One of the grave diggers is female. Why wouldn't there be female grave diggers?

Of course there are female grave diggers, growstuff

I did say that there were women who will do all the jobs I listed, which were just random.

The fact that everyone is saying they know a female grave digger, road sweeper is proving my point though

I don't actually know the grave diggers, but I've had plenty of time to observe them over the last few months. I don't really understand why they were on the list.

growstuff

grannygranby Thankfully, by the time I went to an all girls' school in 1966, training girls to be housewives had been abandoned. I didn't learn flower arranging, cooking or dressmaking. We were taught subjects to get us into university and have careers. In the early 1970s men still outnumbered women at the Oxbridge colleges by a wide ratio. It never occurred to me - ever - that I wouldn't work for my living.

Sounds like my school

grannygranby Thankfully, by the time I went to an all girls' school in 1966, training girls to be housewives had been abandoned. I didn't learn flower arranging, cooking or dressmaking. We were taught subjects to get us into university and have careers. In the early 1970s men still outnumbered women at the Oxbridge colleges by a wide ratio. It never occurred to me - ever - that I wouldn't work for my living.

growstuff

My house backs on to a cemetery. Digging a grave is no longer back breaking work, as they have a mini digger. One of the grave diggers is female. Why wouldn't there be female grave diggers?

Of course there are female grave diggers, growstuff

I did say that there were women who will do all the jobs I listed, which were just random.

The fact that everyone is saying they know a female grave digger, road sweeper is proving my point though

There was a time Iam when all recognised midwives were men. It was when the link of cross contamination, due to the fact that doctors were dealing with numerous cases and not just delivering babies, that it was recognised midwifery should remain 'exclusive' and kept separate.