Does feminism mean the same now as it did in the 60's and 70's?

I think it's actually a pushback against feminism, in the way that there is also a pushback against gay rights, it's very regressive.

What is worrying me about the present day is what appears to be the 'girlification' of women.

I thought in the 70s and 80s we tried to bring our children up in as non sexist way was we possibly could. Girls and boys had the same toys and the same opportunities. That seemed to me like a good contribution to feminism from SAHM.

I utterly abhor the current 'pinkification' of everything ( have you tried to buy a 'not pink' birthday card for a woman or girl? They exist, but you have to hunt for them), the separation of toys in shops into 'girls' and 'boys', even to the extent of packaging the same toy in pink for girls and blue for boys. The insistence on little girls being 'princesses' (FFS, why?) etc. This seems to me to be a really retrograde step, though I have heard women defend it as just being another choice available to them. And I wonder if it is regarded as some sort of ironic statement..

But when it gets mixed up with gender identity, with girls being pushed into transitioning because they like doing 'boy things', and vice versa for boys it gives me an entirely new dimension of worry. I feel that the growing apart of the 'gender roles,' when we had tried hard to eliminate them ,is a really dangerous trend.

I worked in 50/50 environments. Nearly all the worst colleagues I had were women. I don't know whether they felt threatened themselves, whether they felt they had something to prove or what it was.

I think she's described as powerful because she has connections with influential people. I don't know what her relationship with them was/is, but she certainly had the resources to exercise more power than the average person.

Galaxy, the nature of my work meant we honestly didn't have that kind of culture. The nature of our work meant we had significant involvement with domestic violence and sexual abuse. I worked with some men to whom I will always feel affection and gratitude. Same for the women of course but given this discussion, and the way some seem to see feminists as 'men haters' maybe its worth stating that.

I was in the workplace in the nineties and noughties and the sexual innuendo and power dynamic was still there, I still am in the workplace but in an all female environment so I dont know how much it has changed now.

TerriBull makes some good points about office life in the 70' and 80's, just like union meetings for example where some men still assumed because we were there, we'd wash up and brew up.
Several people have commented on the pressure today's young women face. I agree with the points about pornography driving demands that in previous generations could have been seen as unreasonable (I hope that description makes sense).

Why do some women see feminism as "equality plus". All the young women I know are working and looking after children. This lockdown seems to have resulted in the 1950's returning so fares women and child care go, except that they're doing most of the child care whilst working from home. Like growstuff I worked full time , was a single parent (of one child) for a few years then had two more children. Thanks to mat leave, a husband who shared responsibilities and a good child minder we got through. I enjoyed my working life and retirement is good. Equality and having control over my life (thank you TerriBull) has worked for me.

growstuff

*Strange woman seemed to enjoy running around after her boss like a blue arsed fly*

I was reading about Ghislaine Maxwell. It seems people are "defending" her because she would do anything to please Epstein, even though she is a highly educated, wealthy and powerful woman in her own right.

What is it about the psyche of some women?

I'm not sure why she's described as powerful. She worked at various times for her father and benefited financially from a family trust fund, no doubt set up with some of the proceeds from the Mirror Group Pension fund. Reportedly £440 million was missing from the fund and 32,000 members deprived of their pensions.

Strange woman seemed to enjoy running around after her boss like a blue arsed fly

I was reading about Ghislaine Maxwell. It seems people are "defending" her because she would do anything to please Epstein, even though she is a highly educated, wealthy and powerful woman in her own right.

What is it about the psyche of some women?

To me is absolutely paramount than women have control over their own lives.

Yes! Yes! Yes!

The office place of the seventies and eighties could be quite a sexist place to work, some women colluded with that aspect though. One of the places I worked, the overall boss's secretary, was very old school, and actually suggested to the female members of staff "perhaps we could organise a rota with her to wash up the men's cups" I think she heard me when I muttered under my breath "organise a rota with yourself", anyway the consensus among us was "they aren't helpless they can do it themselves, if you want a life of servitude at work then that's up to you" Strange woman seemed to enjoy running around after her boss like a blue arsed fly

I also remember it could be a quite a horrible atmosphere as far as sexual innuendo and unwanted remarks were concerned. However, taking all that into account I'm not sure that girls today don't have it worse if they are young and acquiesce to male demands, as it seems some do. Demands that are often driven on by pornography and being young and susceptible they can be coerced into allowing sexual images to be taken which are subsequently passed on without consent and then used as a form of control. On the subject of control, I often think there has been a retrograde downward trajectory in the power that certain communities wield over their girls and women. This wasn't something I was aware of back in the 60s/70s and 80s, maybe individual cases, but not a wholesale scale. To me is absolutely paramount than women have control over their own lives.

quizqueen

I went into teaching at the beginning because it offered equal pay and opportunity and I expected my then husband to do equal housekeeping and childcare. However, I have never believed feminism means equality 'plus', so no extra time off, over and above what the men have, for caring responsibilities, school assemblies, dentist visits etc.

I never expected extra time off for caring responsibilities, etc - even when I was a single parent for 15 years.

However, (and I'm sorry if you don't like graphic detail) when my two extra thick pads were drenched with blood every hour and I had to keep going to the toilet, I did feel somewhat miffed when I was told off for turning up a few minutes late to do break duty, even though I explained the situation.

Looking back, I felt permanently fatigued and worn out for years and I had to be more resilient than men (as I expect many women are).

Oopsminty

I must have lived in an alternate universe

I never thought that men had the upper hand

I had a fabulous life. Travelled alone. Lived abroad.

Quite surprised by all this

I don't know how old you are. I never regarded men as having the upper hand either. Legally, they don't. However, looking back, I can see they did - in many sometimes subtle ways.

Feminism evolves with the times we live in.

Previous generations pave the way

ladymuck

As a teenager, I was quite content with the prospect of getting married and being a housewife and mother. However my parents had other plans and wanted me to have a career. I deliberately rebelled against them and stopped bothering with school work.
We are not all ambitious to prove ourselves equal to men. I married, had children, and was a stay at home wife and mother. It suited me perfectly, as it does many women.

That was your choice. I hope you don't now expect to have a pension equal to men or women who have actually paid taxes and NICs all their working lives. I hope you're not one who ever criticises people "on benefits" when you have contributed almost nothing to the wider economy. I also hope you don't ever criticise women for making different choices and do want to do something in their own right.

And please don't tell me that looking after children was your contribution. Women who work outside the home do both and are still often seen as the main child carer, when there are problems such as ill children or non pupil days at school.

I went into teaching at the beginning because it offered equal pay and opportunity and I expected my then husband to do equal housekeeping and childcare. However, I have never believed feminism means equality 'plus', so no extra time off, over and above what the men have, for caring responsibilities, school assemblies, dentist visits etc.

I must have lived in an alternate universe

I never thought that men had the upper hand

I had a fabulous life. Travelled alone. Lived abroad.

Quite surprised by all this

To answer your question about women and misogyny, I think it's much easier to play the game so to speak. Feminists are after all viewed in a particular way. It's easier to collude and hope that keeps you in favour so to speak. I without question did that as a young woman, so I try not to judge women, particularly young women too harshly, not easy though

As a teenager, I was quite content with the prospect of getting married and being a housewife and mother. However my parents had other plans and wanted me to have a career. I deliberately rebelled against them and stopped bothering with school work.
We are not all ambitious to prove ourselves equal to men. I married, had children, and was a stay at home wife and mother. It suited me perfectly, as it does many women.

growstuff I went to an event last year where that was being discussed. A woman called herself "Miss Menopause"- she does educational events about it www.missmenopause.co.uk
I thought it was valuable for the workplace but I disagreed with her solution which was to take HRT. I think if that is your personal decision it's fine but I'm never sure about drug solutions that seem to solve a problem when actually there are other ways of dealing with it.
There was a woman at the same event from an organisation called Pregnant then Screwed. She formed it when she lost her job because she was pregnant. Apparently it is now becoming more widespread to sack women half way through their pregnancy. They are then left jobless, trying to plan for their baby, and have to appeal the dismissal within 6 months, which they are often in no fit state to do. It is terrible how we think a problem is overcome but some firms and even charities try to wriggle out of it.

I

A agree. And I think because it's much more subtle (dogwhistle), it's very difficult to prove.

I was on a recruitment panel recently where I had to stop a question about what should an employee do if their child rang the workplace. That question would on the whole impact women more than men and would impact single parents more than anyone. I think it's still there but much more subtle.

Dinahmo

In the late 80s, after moving to Suffolk, I applied for a job with
an housing association in Norwich. Probably 6 people on the interviewing panel, one of whom was a woman. She asked me what my OH thought about me driving to Norwich everyday. I was so shocked at that question that it showed in my voice when responding. I was also asked about children (I was 40 at the time). I knew that that type of personal question should not be asked by a prospective employer, especially one in the public sector. I didn't get the job.

I got a new job in 1986. At the time I was 31 and unmarried. I guess the employer thought I was a confirmed spinster. What he didn't know was that I was about to be married. When I turned up for work with a new surname, he made it very obvious that he was disappointed that I hadn't said anything. Presumably he thought I would be off on maternity leave within a year (I wasn't).

trisher Picking up on your point about period poverty ... another practical issue which I don't think is addressed is the menopause in the workplace. With hindsight, I can see that it affected my performance at work and ultimately led to my early retirement. I wish I'd been able to be more open about it all and not try to soldier on as I did. I wonder if it accounts for the big spike in women in their fifties who are made redundant.