Does feminism mean the same now as it did in the 60's and 70's?

Iam no - I didn't realise Mrs. America was about Betty Friedan. We don't have tv but watch on iPlayer on the 'puter.
I'll have to have a look.
I read the book and remember feeling inspired by it, though I was never a militant feminist. Unlike my sister who is 10 years yonger than me.
Interesting that your Dad gave the same advice and later apologised. Mine never did, but he was later proud of both me and my sister.

Fennel - good to see you here.
Have you watched Mrs America? Betty Friedan is played by Tracy Ullman, who is excellent.
It's good to remember how things were when we were younger and how much the women's movement/feminism has contributed to greater equality.
Your dad wasn't alone in believing women could not follow particular careers. My dad was very senior in his chosen career. At 17 I said I'd like to follow in his footsteps. He discouraged me "it's no job for a woman" he said. Twenty years later, he apologised as more and more women were promoted into senior roles. He actually said "I was wrong". Very rare occurrence.
I chose the same career as you and had an interesting, stimulating and rewarding (if challenging) career.

I've just come across this thread and haven't read it all but it rings bells with me too.
I'm probably older than most of you - left school at 18 in 1954.
That's when many women were talking about the book The Feminine Mystique by Betty Freidan.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Feminine_Mystique
Although I had grown up in a mostly female family - both sides- my parents wanted both my sister and I to go onto further education. Maybe because it was mostly women who kept the country going during WW2.
Dad had been in the RN and had already trained as a solicitor so I told him I wanted to study Law but he said NO -no-one would go to a female solicitor for advice. But now there are at least as many female solicitors as male .
Same as in medicine. So the feminist movement has achieved a lot. Including equal pay and various benefits.
So I went on to train as a Social worker and later as an Ed. Psych and loved my work.
At first I was the only woman on my courses/jobs but it didn't worry me much except the men's surprise when I had a 'good idea'.
So I'm sad about the modern trend back to women's dependence solely on their physical seduction (?) when we have so many other natural abilities.

I once had to drive home after arriving at the venue where I was presenting a course. It was half an hour from home and despite using every protection known to woman my lower clothes were unwearable. Fortunately my co-trainer was able to start the course and I was back an hour and a half later to continue.
My GP was wonderful. He told me I wouldn't put up with any other area of my body bleeding like that and should have called him earlier. Three months of hormone treatment sorted the problem and I didn't need the hysterectomy he'd referred me for.

As I know you know Growstuff, teachers too. Very few teachers over 50 in the classroom in the UK. And not all of us want to be management.

Female doctors in menopause retiring early due to sexism, says study.

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/aug/06/female-doctors-in-menopause-retiring-early-due-to-sexism-says-study

I bet it's not just doctors who are affected.

I fear women who identify as feminists are still seen as a Monstrous Regiment

Yes theres a startling lack of empathy.

growstuff

It's a world of hot air Summerlove

Meanwhile, those of in temperate climes know what it's like and have real life examples ...

I’m starting to wonder if unless you’ve experienced certain things you don’t actually believe exist

It's a world of hot air Summerlove

Meanwhile, those of in temperate climes know what it's like and have real life examples ...

Grandad1943

Since 2010 the Equality Act has been in existence which gives the right to anyone who finds discrimination in their lives due to gender, race, religious beliefs, disability, sexual preference and much else to be able to take that discrimination to the courts.

However, it would seem that in today's world persons and groupings would rather place their cases of discrimination on social media rather than through the channels that really can bring justice, equality and through that an end to the intolerance they find in their lives.

By example to the above, Workplace safety has been transformed over the last forty years so that in the present day many return home safe and healthy from their employment who would not have done so in years past. That change was brought about through people using the courts and the legislation brought in to protect workers in their workplaces. Similar to the above should now be happening with gender discrimination but, sadly, that is not the case.

Protest and demonstrations can be effective when it is seen that new legislation is required to bring about change. However, with gender discrimination that comprehensive legislation is already in existence, and women must use it, for nothing else will end the bigotry that many find in their lives.

Your world with no grey area and where you have all the answers must be such a reassuring place to live.

I don’t however understand, as you have all the answers why you are not fighting for all the injustices? Or is it that they don’t affect you so it doesn’t matter?

TerriBull, yes indeed, you are right to compare our experiences with those of women in Turkey under Erdogan. We visited Instanbul pre Erdogan, found it a fascinating, cosmopolitan city. Of course, like any city there were areas of deprivation and real poverty but one of the enjoyable aspects of our five day city visit was the presence of groups of young women and men going abut their lives like young people in any European city.
We were able to wander the city, felt safe and welcome. The arrival or Erdogan had me deciding I was glad to have visited because I wouldn't be returning.
Friends who lived in Iran pre the Islamic revolution have photographs of themselves with friends of various nationalities and faiths/none mixing easily together.

I know TerriBull, that you wouldn't dismiss this thread as being a discussion about who makes the tea. Here in the west, we are fortunate indeed.

There's an article in today's Sunday Times entitled "They are hunted like birds here: killings of women soar in Turkey.

Lets not forget that femicide is prevalent in many countries around the world which really make our gripes about who makes the tea quite insignificant, that's not to say that I think that women should be doing that task exclusively. Here's a sobering quote from President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey "women are not equal to men and those who do not have children are "deficient" and and "incomplete" Horrifying! I hope the women of Turkey aren't dragged backwards in the way those in Afghanistan and Iran have been. Pictures from the '70s indicate that some of the women from those two countries experienced a more emancipated way of life then they do today.

It depended on who your mortgage was with some banks and building societies were more elightened than others. Even if the mortgage was in the woman's name they might ask for a male guarantor.

growstuff

My mother had a mortgage in her own name in the mid 1970s after she was divorced. I think that rule might have only been for married women.

I was divorced in my mid 20's and Halifax Building Society told me I was their first female to be granted a mortgage. I worked for a merchant bank in the City and my neighbours reported me to the police as a call girl! The police were very apologetic.

Iam64

Momentum - I don't have your faith in organisations like Momentum as forces for positive change in society.

Who said that any organisation supporting women against discrimination in all its forms would have to be in any similar to Momentum.

It was only stated that Momentum originally organised out of the Unite Union Community Branch Structure which provided a great base from which it could start.

Jillybird Thank you.

I'm pleased with this thread because no one's being bitchy or rude and everybody has had something interesting to say.

Susieq62

What brought home to me recently the fact that we haven’t come as far as I had hoped was the following discussion.
Me to stepson’s girlfriend (who had just got a first class honours degree in business from Newcastle Uni)” so who did you vote for in the European elections.“
“ I voted for the Brexit party”
“ Can I ask why you voted that way?”
“ Because Jason ( boyfriend) told me to!”

I leave that one with you.

Could it be that she wants to keep hold of her boyfriend?

I've no idea what the ration of young women to men is nowadays.

I remember about 20 years ago we used to go to a bar on Fridays immediately after work for a couple of drinks before going home. The young people used to arrive for a night out before we left. The girls were dressed up, hair and make up etc. The young men hadn't bothered. I looked at them wondering how those girls could fancy any of them because I certainly wouldn't have done so if I was their age.

Glorybee

A minor bugbear - when I was younger and regularly ate at friends and friends of friends houses, it always seemed acceptable, even expected, that the man of the house would be ‘allowed’ to just drop off and have a snooze whilst visitors were present, particularly after a meal, whilst the women had the whole responsibility of being the host.

A more modern version of the women leaving the dining table and the men remaining with their port!

Check here for campaigns and how women are organising. pregnantthenscrewed.com/campaigns/

Momentum - I don't have your faith in organisations like Momentum as forces for positive change in society.

Iam64

Earlier in this discussion, Grandad refers to the difficulty in his business of persuading women to apply for promotion, especially as its likely to involve travelling. So many still assume women will work and do the bulk of child care/domestic duties/care for older relatives etc.

So far as I'm aware, Unite organises within the work force not within the home. To accuse some employers of bigotry as you do Grandad, fails to address the constructs that underpin the way so many women find it difficult to balance the needs of their family with their desire to have a successful career.

Iam64, The Unite union organises outside of workplaces by way of it's community branch Structure. It was through that structure that Momentum originally organised and "Dont Leave Organise" (DLO) are currently reforming the left in the Labour party and wider movement.

What better place for women to organise against discrimination both in the workplace and beyond as if this thread is any guide to judge by no other solutions are coming forward.

It is one thing to describe a situation and give examples, but a far greater challenge to come forward with solutions to those problems and situations???

Earlier in this discussion, Grandad refers to the difficulty in his business of persuading women to apply for promotion, especially as its likely to involve travelling. So many still assume women will work and do the bulk of child care/domestic duties/care for older relatives etc.

So far as I'm aware, Unite organises within the work force not within the home. To accuse some employers of bigotry as you do Grandad, fails to address the constructs that underpin the way so many women find it difficult to balance the needs of their family with their desire to have a successful career.

Grandad1943

trisher there is now a higher percentage of women as members of the Unite Union than men. Many have become high ranking full-time organisers and are well aware of all the sex discrimination that takes place in the workplace.

What they require is for women to organise around that prejudice and bring that discrimination to them so action can be taken against employers who practise that bigotry

From Unite's own website:

*Our membership is currently made up of 72% men and
28% women.*

unitetheunion.org/media/2203/8312_genderpaygap_report_finaldigital.pdf

Hmm ... what do facts matter anyway?

Grandad1943

growstuff

You really don't seem to have any idea of the realities of sex discrimination in the workplace. The law does not cover all eventualities and is not the complete answer, nor is organising (presumably via unionisation).

How do you see sex discrimination attitudes being changed in the workplace or elsewhere then growstuff? Go tear down a few statues or anonymously throw a brick though your employers window.

Yes, that should get equality a long way, I dont not think.

My my! What a silly comment!