Trump has finally lost it.....

It sounds like he is part of Trump's "core vote", who are immune to any logical debate as they have a quasi-religious devotion to Trump.

Truly incomprehensible to most of us.

Three of our family have commented on one of his posts but I shall think carefully about what I comment on in order to maintain the contact. I think it will be easier that way. I am never going to change his mind! It is beyond comprehension how Trump has any support at all!

It must be difficult to balance a family relationship with differing political views, but it always seems to me that in these situations the reasonable considerate person has to stand back and defer to the irrational or fanatical for fear of upsetting them. Is there a way you can challenge him about Trump's lies or his many failings without cutting off contact?

I try not to comment on his political posts. We were quite close many years ago and have only recently found each other on Facebook.
He has put up several posts supporting the police. Also one which was a page long list of all the wonderful things Trump has done in his administration so far!

Do you ever ask your relative why she continues to support Trump?

I was watching the Jeremy Vine show and both panellists believed that Trump would win. Which surprised me somewhat. I thought he would be toast

Facebook post from a relative in Missouri (Trump supporter) says no Joe Biden’s posters in those two states but plenty of Trump’s. I hope that is not the general feeling of the country.

More than two dozen former Republican lawmakers endorse Joe Biden on first day of GOP convention

edition.cnn.com/2020/08/24/politics/former-congressional-republicans-endorse-joe-biden/index.html

Crime is widespread in the United States- It isn't isolated-

Portland, Oregon is predominantly white- Predominantly Democrat-

POGS

"Unfortunately there have been instances .. "

Instances?

No-

I'd of slid that bill directly back to writer after reading the first line-

It seems there is a lot of violence in Portland, with white supremacists turning it into another Charlottesville.

Linking cities, violence and politics is not plausible, and is wrong.

Extract from an article in USA today fact checker.

All of which brings us to the core question: Is it reasonable to connect the violence and partisanship?

In short, no.

“I don’t think there’s any data that would allow us to draw a causal conclusion here,” said David Weisburd, executive director of the Center for Evidence Based Crime Policy at George Mason University. “Somehow arguing that Democrats cause crime or something of that sort just doesn’t fit the history of crime prevention in the U.S.”

If you interpret the claim as referring to Democratic leadership, Weisburd notes that President Bill Clinton had one of the strongest recent administrations in terms of funding the criminal justice system.

But more broadly, linking crime and votes simply doesn’t reflect how crime works. Studies have repeatedly found that urban crime is not a widespread phenomenon — like voting is — but a product of small groups of people in small areas.

rosecarmel

'Mayor Jenny Durkan doesn't support Trump and Cheryl Selby doesn't either- Nor does De Blasio or Lightfoot-'
----

Yes they Democrats and it is a fact the problems are prominently in Democrat run cities.

As for Reform is necessary.

I know the Bill Trump signed in June doesn't go far enough for the Democrats and am I correct in thinking they voted against it, not sure, however it is a response to what is happening surely.

edition.cnn.com/2020/06/16/_politics-zone-injection/trump-police-reform-eo/index.html

Extracts

'Unfortunately, there have been instances in which some officers have misused their authority, challenging the trust of the American people, with tragic consequences for individual victims, their communities, and our Nation. All Americans are entitled to live with the confidence that the law enforcement officers and agencies in their communities will live up to our Nation's founding ideals and will protect the rights of all persons. Particularly in African-American communities, we must redouble our efforts as a Nation to swiftly address instances of misconduct.'
-

(c) The Attorney General shall certify independent credentialing bodies that meet standards to be set by the Attorney General. Reputable, independent credentialing bodies, eligible for certification by the Attorney General, should address certain topics in their reviews, such as policies and training regarding use--of-force and de-escalation techniques; performance management tools, such as early warning systems that help to identify officers who may require intervention; and best practices regarding community engagement. The Attorney General's standards for certification shall require independent credentialing bodies to, at a minimum, confirm that:

(i) the State or local law enforcement agency's use-of-force policies adhere to all applicable Federal, State, and local laws; and

(ii) the State or local law enforcement agency's use-of-force policies prohibit the use of chokeholds -- a physical maneuver that restricts an individual's ability to breathe for the purposes of incapacitation -- except in those situations where the use of deadly force is allowed by law.

POGS

Police were trained to practice racial profiling to reduce crime, employ excessive force during arrests and use their weapons with impunity-

Police have also been unfairly saddled with ever increasing responsibilities, further damaging their well-being and as a result fractured their relationships with the people of the communities and cities where they work-

Reform is necessary-

Carmen Best expressed the need for trust between law enforcement and communities to be rebuilt-

It has nothing to do with saving money but everything to do with saving lives-

To put a political spin on it:

Mayor Jenny Durkan doesn't support Trump and Cheryl Selby doesn't either- Nor does De Blasio or Lightfoot-

Donald Trump's sister says he's an 'unprincipled phoney'

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53881222

"Enough is enough. Four years after Donald Trump won the presidential election, it is time for a nationwide reckoning.

The election of Democrat Joe Biden in November will go far toward restoring honor and integrity to the presidency and the national ethos.

The vindictiveness and greed that have characterized Trump’s tenure wrought damage to government, institutions and U.S. relationships abroad that will take years to mend. Federal failures to resolve the pandemic and economic crises require accountability. And the intentional aggravation of partisan divides across the country cannot be allowed to persist.

The list of specific grievances against Trump is long. The latest outrage is deploying federal agents to Seattle and other cities uninvited to confront protesters, in some cases, brutally. He extorted the Ukrainian president for political gain. He detained masses of migrant children at the border, separating them from their parents. He has rolled back environmental protections across the country and withdrew the nation from the Paris climate accords. He hawked beans on the Resolute desk in the Oval Office and used negotiations with foreign rulers to drum up business for his resorts. He attacked mail-in-voting and threatened to defund the Postal Service. And he so ineptly managed a pandemic that infections are still climbing and supplies are still short more than six months after the first case was diagnosed. More than 142,000 Americans have died from COVID-19, and many of them could have been saved but for Trump’s routine undermining of health experts.

Biden can fix this mess."

www.seattletimes.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-the-times-editorial-board-recommends-joe-biden-for-president/

rosecarmel

Thank you it is cities not states I stand corrected.

Cities such as Seattle where their well respected Police Chief Carmen Best resigned due to the city council voting to reduce the police budget and lay off 100 officers.. (note my latter comment)

During the Seattle CHAZ/CHOP which ever you want to call it I thought watching and listening to the stark difference between Carmen Best and the Seattle Mayor Jenny Durkan will divide it's residents. Durkan has since said she will veto the decision made by the Seattle Council but only on the grounds as far as I can see it because it needs ' better planning', not because it is a bad idea or will not happen at all.

Durkan at the early stage of the Capital Hill Autonomous Zone fiasco during an interview with CNN, if I remember correctly, used phrases such 'Block Party', possible ' Summer of Love', of course she said on her view being challenged she was only joking but joking when vandalism /rioting is taken place in your city did not go down well for many. Later however her own home was targeted by protesters and I believe also spray painted. What happened to her is what is happening in many cities, to many citizens including her own but it is different when it is you and your family targeted and you are in a position to do something about it. Durkan and her own Council Member Kshama Sawant are having their own battle of words but ordinary citizens have not got the same voice have they.

When the mob comes for them the tune changes examples would be Mayor Cheryl Selby of Olympic who now her home is vandalised refers to the protests as “domestic terrorism,” they were not before. Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot who was all for protests until they came for her and she now has put police protection into ' her ' neighbourhood and cannot see her hypocrisy by saying “Given the threats that I have personally received. Given the threats to my home and my family, I’m gonna do everything to make sure that they are protected,” “I make no apologies whatsoever for that.”
Those sentiments didn't/doesn't apply to the citizens of Chicago it would appear.

Then you have De Blasio in New York doing likewise.

Defunding/moving funds from police and law enforcement is a plain and simple act and given the anarchy in some cities and states it is no wonder there is opposition to it at this particular time. It is causing enormous division whether you are for or against and I still think the silent majority will have that at the top of their agenda for reasons to vote for a party in November. Defunding the police departments and moving them to other departments is not saving money it is a political choice.

Does the sheer amount of gun toting people worry you rose
It amazes us here in the UK ( the casual carrying of guns) by citizens in the US and how easy it is to buy not only a handgun but automatic weapons.

POGS

lemongrove

We have enough trouble In the UK with left /right political shenanigans / spin / hypocrisy but Hells bells the left/right politics in the US is on a different level.

I think the past few months has probably shocked everybody with the riots and level of violence that has taken place, is taking place, will take place. The defunding of the police that has taken place in certain states I genuinely think will see the silent majority and floating voters to vote for the party they believe to be on their side.

I would like to say it is fascinating to watch but it is beyond that, it is very unsettling and anarchy is never pleasant to watch.

No state has defunded the police- Cities are doing this and it isn't new, to reassign funds- For example, the government may use FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency) funds to fund unemployment-

The cities that are doing this are reassigning the funds to homelessness, drug rehabilitation and mental health, for example- As well as other things- The goal? To "relieve" stress on the police departments that have been (unfairly) assigned too much responsibility-

4 states have passed bills for police "reform", which is obviously long overdue- And considerably different than "defunding"-

To be against police reform is like saying you don't care for the well-being of police, the cities they patrol and all the people those ill and ill at ease police have profiled, wrongfully arrested, assaulted, brutalized and murdered in cold blood-

lemongrove

We have enough trouble In the UK with left /right political shenanigans / spin / hypocrisy but Hells bells the left/right politics in the US is on a different level.

I think the past few months has probably shocked everybody with the riots and level of violence that has taken place, is taking place, will take place. The defunding of the police that has taken place in certain states I genuinely think will see the silent majority and floating voters to vote for the party they believe to be on their side.

I would like to say it is fascinating to watch but it is beyond that, it is very unsettling and anarchy is never pleasant to watch.

I have too POGS we watch both Fox and CNN to get a feel for how things are going.
I can understand voters last time voting for Trump, but surely things will be different this time? He still does have a big fan base though.
Biden needs to convince the voters wavering in the middle, can he really do that?

rosecarmel

Thank you for responding.

I have been following US Politics a lot this year and I can't help but think defunding the police and the lack of law and order over the past few months will cause for reflection by the silent majority, it would in my opinion here in the UK.

November will be interesting.

POGS

rosecarmel

Do you think the destruction, violence, looting, raised racial tension, the defunding of police, break down in law and order etc. in cities such as Seattle, Portland, New York etc. will have no part to play in voter decisions.?

I do- Believe it will influence voter decisions- Especially shop owners- Many of which that were barely afloat due to the pandemic called it quits after getting their windows smashed in -- and then some-

Although I don't believe it would result in more votes for Trump- Just the opposite if anything-

I say that because social unrest is a reflection of the President in office at that time- It works against them come time for election, but their re-election isn't dependent upon it-

For example, Occupy Wall Street occurred during the Obama administration- It did work against him, but he had plenty of other pluses to protect him- Which is something Trump doesn't have- Anymore- Although prior to the pandemic and demonstrations it looked as if he was still positioned to win-

He'd have to pull a rabbit out of a hat between now and November- The possibility is slim- And getting slimmer by the day- But not impossible- 2016 taught us never to be that sure of any election again, unless it looks like a landslide win-

I don't rely solely on polls- They never represent everyone- Much like prior presidents- But his approval rating is still trending in the 40's and there's more Trump signs than Biden signs in people's yards and places of business where I live- But that doesn't count for much either- It just proves that despite all his bullshit people still support him-

Which is sorta scary ..

varian

I bope that voters will reject a president who has presided over such turmoil.

I am hoping that the sort of populist politics that we have all witnessed and been subjected to is beginning to become clear in its ugliness, and will start to be put back where it belongs - in the nearest sewer.

I bope that voters will reject a president who has presided over such turmoil.

rosecarmel

Do you think the destruction, violence, looting, raised racial tension, the defunding of police, break down in law and order etc. in cities such as Seattle, Portland, New York etc. will have no part to play in voter decisions.?