Is morality something you expect of others?

Grandad1943

growstuff, just look at your own posts in this thread, nothing but negativity. For many of us, that sums up the teaching profession attitude throughout this crisis.

We can only thank the powers that be that the food industry, transport, and the utility companies did not adopt that same attitude, for the state the country would be in now is unthinkable should that have been the case.

Not true grandad. Growstuff has done a sterling job trying to explain the problems involved in full opening of secondary schools and has said that teachers DO WANT to achieve that if possible but government MUST give both adequate funding and guidelines eg can teachers wear masks or not ? Can they operate a rota system or not ? Will there be testing or not ?

I’m sorry but you have simply repeated what you have said so many times on other threads.

Galaxy

I have two school age children so presumably I am allowed to say that I think the suggestions on this thread are nonsensical and if my school had included them in their risk assessment I wouldn't have been comfortable sending my child back to school.

It's interesting that posters on Mumsnet, most of whom presumably have school age children, have a very different view from some posters on GN. They know the realities of schools from personal experience and understand the issues.

I am not ignorant of the situation growstuff. I do know that teachers work in an environment where random people off the street do not enter their workspace. Compared with supermarket workers, bus drivers, doctors and nurses etc. in that respect they ARE working in a lower risk area.

growstuff, just look at your own posts in this thread, nothing but negativity. For many of us, that sums up the teaching profession attitude throughout this crisis.

We can only thank the powers that be that the food industry, transport, and the utility companies did not adopt that same attitude, for the state the country would be in now is unthinkable should that have been the case.

Would those who so condemn teachers for wanting maximum protection provided for the children in their care be happy to send their teenagers (to drink coca-cola) in the pub, if the pub were not big enough for the publican to move the tables apart for safe spacing and provide clear passageways between tables so that no-one was breathed on by every customer on his way to the bar or the loo?

Suppose the publican had assessed the premises and knew that it would cost more to find/buy/rent/maintain/furnish/staff any extra accommodation nearby than his budget could pay for, the brewery wasn't going to give or lend him any, so he opened without the distancing and safety measures that had been laid down, because the brewery decreed that he must open and let in as many customers as pre-lockdown.

Would they still send their children along to the unsafe premises for their coca-cola, and not complain when they caught the virus from somone not showing any symptoms, and gave it to mum, dad, the baby and grandma, and from them to the whole street, and caused the town to be on lockdown? Or would they lynch the publican for not taking care of their child? Why not lynch the brewery for not supporting their publicans, for demanding they take extraordinary measures without extraordinary resources?

Or the government for not supporting schools in their efforts to comply with government commands?

He could be a brilliant father, we don’t know, I don’t judge until I know all the facts.
A nice comment from a different perspective Sparkling.

Ellianne

*Grandad*and gillybob, please don't view yourselves as lesser mortals. You have as much status in society as those from other walks of life. The ability to get the country back on its feet has been due to so many sensible, hardworking people. The word "professional" has taken on a new meaning.
Teachers themselves will be working in one of the lowest risk areas, they must be longing to get back and do the job they were trained to do. After 6 months of planning and consultation, it is time to roll up the sleeves and give of one's best.

How do you work that one out Ellianne? Teenagers over 10 are as infectious as adults and will be forced into cramped, poorly ventilated classrooms, which provide the very worst environment for transmission.

You really are patronising and, quite frankly, ignorant of what many teachers have been doing over the last six months.

Sparkling

Unless we keep children at home indefinitely, they have to go back to school, just look how happy they are when they do. They need to go back, For education but as importantly, their mental health. in my opinion they should all have gone back earlier. We have to live with this pandemic, not stop living. I am vulnerable, I know that, but these youngsters haven’t had our chances and they usually do bounce back from things. Trisher, you are talking about his chequered family life, perhaps this time he has it right. How many of us have married or had relationships more than once? He could be a brilliant father, we don’t know, I don’t judge until I know all the facts.

Yes, they could go back on a rota system combined with distance learning, so that there could be social distancing. The reality is that releasing millions of spreaders into the community is going to be a disaster. No amount of pontificating or eulogising about happy children will provide schools with a magic wand.

PS. I hope Gavin Williamson doesn't try to sit down today because his pants must surely be on fire! He must want to keep his job in the cabinet very much.

Grandadand gillybob, please don't view yourselves as lesser mortals. You have as much status in society as those from other walks of life. The ability to get the country back on its feet has been due to so many sensible, hardworking people. The word "professional" has taken on a new meaning.
Teachers themselves will be working in one of the lowest risk areas, they must be longing to get back and do the job they were trained to do. After 6 months of planning and consultation, it is time to roll up the sleeves and give of one's best.

gillybob

^Oh, I see, us mere mortals must never make any comment of the education profession as we understand nothing in regard to the learning of our children and grandchildren^

Yes Grandad1943 you got it in one paragraph.

Not at all! But Grandad has shown repeatedly that he really doesn't have a grasp of reality as far as schools are concerned.

Unless we keep children at home indefinitely, they have to go back to school, just look how happy they are when they do. They need to go back, For education but as importantly, their mental health. in my opinion they should all have gone back earlier. We have to live with this pandemic, not stop living. I am vulnerable, I know that, but these youngsters haven’t had our chances and they usually do bounce back from things. Trisher, you are talking about his chequered family life, perhaps this time he has it right. How many of us have married or had relationships more than once? He could be a brilliant father, we don’t know, I don’t judge until I know all the facts.

I have two school age children so presumably I am allowed to say that I think the suggestions on this thread are nonsensical and if my school had included them in their risk assessment I wouldn't have been comfortable sending my child back to school.

gillybob

^Oh, I see, us mere mortals must never make any comment of the education profession as we understand nothing in regard to the learning of our children and grandchildren^

Yes Grandad1943 you got it in one paragraph.

gillyBob, ???

Oh, I see, us mere mortals must never make any comment of the education profession as we understand nothing in regard to the learning of our children and grandchildren

Yes Grandad1943 you got it in one paragraph.

Oh, I see, us mere mortals must never make any comment of the education profession as we understand nothing in regard to the learning of our children and grandchildren.

However, we know what we witness, and that is many children have received almost nothing or very little from their schools throughout the closure, and that now must end.

The government are articulating the above with overwhelming public backing. The teachers need to take that as a warning, without a doubt.

Johnson (and anybody with an ounce of common sense) realises that forcing millions of potential spreaders into environments where conditions for transmission are optimal, would be lunacy and result in the whole country going back into lockdown in double quick time.

Meanwhile, headteachers are making contingency plans for arrangements which could actually work.

I think you'll find that the overwhelming majority of the public isn't in favour of what Johnson said. He couched it in those terms to undermine Starmer and to soften up the public for locking down pubs and other places of entertainment in the near future.

This is the government's "modus operandi". They make some pronouncement on a Sunday, gauge public opinion and the do a U turn later in the week. Meanwhile, it tries to escape responsibility for making decisions.

I think you need to go to Specsavers or Barnard Castle Grandad. Some posters, including me, have made a number of suggestions about how opening schools could work.

The difference between us and you is that we understand how schools operate and are able to offer pragmatic and reasonable alternatives.

Interestingly, Andy Burnham, Ofsted and Ann Longfield (the Children's Commissioner), SAGE and other leading scientists are all saying the same as I have been saying for months.

It is obvious from reading this thread and others that have centred on the school's closure that the education profession is incapable of conceiving any change in the way they and schools should operate.

All fresh thinking is shouted down, and yet such thinking and working has become essential as the government is insisting that ALL CHILDREN will be returning to school learning in September.

The teaching profession also seems oblivious to the reality and evidence that Boris Johnson seems now to be relishing a confrontation with the profession knowing that he would have the overwhelming weight of public opinion on his side come September if the schools are not once again fully open.

Positive thinking and a "can-do attitude" is what is now required by all connected in education and not the continuous negativity we all can witness in this thread and elsewhere.

My local hospital in an area with about average infection had 491 Covid admissions in the month up to 30 July. Sadly, 129 died.

Callistemon

It depends on area though.
There has been one new case in this area in the last week.

I believe you're in Wales.

These are the latest statistics available on hospital admissions in Wales for confirmed Covid-19. They are the admissions during the previous 24 hours on 5 August.

Aneurin Bevan 10
Betsi Cadwaladr 25
Cardiff & Vale 19
Cwm Taf Morgannwg 9
Hywel Dda 9
Powys 0
Swansea Bay 2
Velindre 0
Total 74

Source: NHS Wales Informatics Service

That's the highest number of new admissions since 11 July and there's a rising trend.

The actual number of cases will, of course, be much higher.

There have been fewer deaths recorded in hospitals and care homes, but more in domiciliary care (double the normal rate) and more cases recorded in the community.

I know that my local hospital still has Covid patients being admitted and has a number still requiring treatment.

Callistemon

If a teacher needs to shield for medical reasons, fair enough.

It's not just teachers and other staff needing to shield, who are going to have to fight for the right to shield anyway.

It's also about all the contacts.

Think about the implications of just one infected teenager in an average comprehensive school. They will not be able to socially distance (despite what Gavin Williamson claims). They will be couped up in conditions which are ideal for spread.

One infected pupil could be asymptomatic for a couple of days and during that time infect those sitting nearby - maybe three or four. They will all be asymptomatic for a few days, so will take the infection home and possibly infect family members, some of whom are going out to work, who them pass it on, ad infinitum.

By the end of the week, there could be a few dozen infected people - all because social distancing wasn't possible in school. The school will need to close anyway, so the aim of getting the economy going will be a waste of time.

There needs to be efficient and quick testing on a regular basis and provision for one week on/one week off, so that social distancing can take place.

MissAdventure

I'm sure I read that the R rate (remember that?) is almost at 1 again.

It is - and it's higher in some areas.

gillybob

And so in typical Gransnet form we are back to teachers again.

Yawn. Goodnight

Odd that a thread about school involves teachers.........