Is morality something you expect of others?

If a teacher needs to shield for medical reasons, fair enough.

It depends on area though.
There has been one new case in this area in the last week.

I'm sure I read that the R rate (remember that?) is almost at 1 again.

growstuff

The most recent date for which official hospital bed occupancy in England is available is 5 July.

On 5 July, 2088 beds were occupied by confirmed Covid-19 patients. I'm not aware that there's been a massive reduction since then.

It would appear that community infection rates are rising, so it could be that hospital admissions will start to increase within 10-14 days. On the other hand, most of those infected are younger than previously, so might not need admission. It doesn't mean that transmission is decreasing, so hospital admissions are not necessarily a good indicator of the current state of infection.

Significantly, a younger person can infect somebody more vulnerable and that's what's concerning if people become too complacent.

I think there has been quite a large reduction, growstuff

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-wards-empty-as-virus-death-toll-plunges-bvm0mxl2n

I also have two NHS frontline staff in my family.

Hardly any covid patients in either hospital that they work in.

BTW Callistemon The teaching unions have been positive and proactive throughout. Unfortunately, the government didn't want to engage with them initially.

I wondered how long it would before teaching unions were "blamed". The government's PR campaign seems to be working.

Callistemon

Ok. Let's shut down education for the next two or three years if that's what you think is the moral thing to do.

That's ridiculous and plain silly!! Nobody's suggested that. I've already written about how it could be made to work more safely.

It's not either/or. It's about the government being transparent and taking its own responsibilities seriously.

The most recent date for which official hospital bed occupancy in England is available is 5 July.

On 5 July, 2088 beds were occupied by confirmed Covid-19 patients. I'm not aware that there's been a massive reduction since then.

It would appear that community infection rates are rising, so it could be that hospital admissions will start to increase within 10-14 days. On the other hand, most of those infected are younger than previously, so might not need admission. It doesn't mean that transmission is decreasing, so hospital admissions are not necessarily a good indicator of the current state of infection.

Significantly, a younger person can infect somebody more vulnerable and that's what's concerning if people become too complacent.

Ok. Let's shut down education for the next two or three years if that's what you think is the moral thing to do.

Did I say that?

No.

But obviously some are braver than others.
And dedicated. As are my DGC's teachers but from what I've read on here and heard elsewhere, not all are.

Anyway, I have praised teachers, the ones I know of, throughout, and those I know are keen to get back to the job they love.

Perhaps the Unions should concentrate on a positive and practical way forward now.

Callistemon

Five children have died of the virus in the UK which is very sad indeed.

Children who are vulnerable should probably not return to school but for the majority it is the best course of action as many thousands, or million, will be disadvantaged if not.
LAs should be prepared for local lockdowns.

But that's five children even with mitigating circumstances. The pupils who have been at school have been able to observe social distancing, which will not be possible in September.

Only a few secondary pupils have been at school. It is known that they transmit the same viral load as adults and they are going to be crammed into small classrooms without ventilation for hours at a time.

Schools in France, Israel and South Korea had to close within days of reopening. At the time both Israel and South Korea had very low infection rates.

Callistemon

But I am the aunt of medical staff too, a doctor, nurses, pharmacists.
They have all continued working throughout.

It's not a competition to see who can be the bravest.

Callistemon

If transmission of the virus is supposedly low between children and from children to others, we will be failing a whole generation if schools are not opened again in September.

If the fear is transmission to grandparents then I am afraid that grandparents will have to take every precaution and perhaps isolate again for a while.

I'm sorry, but children are the future.

Transmission between those over 10 (ie secondary age pupils) is apparently as high as it is for adults. They will probably only be affected mildly, but they are capable of spreading infection.

The emotive language is misplaced. Teachers know very well that many pupils are missing out, but it's nothing to do with morality. It's to do with not being provided with resources. It was announced today that the new 90 minute tests won't be available to schools and pupils and staff won't be routinely tested anyway.

The virus will do its mischief, whether or not it's moral.

No, I don't think so.

lemongrove

I think most parents with school age children will think that our society has a moral duty to start up the schools come September.Not only those with children actually, but the great majority of the population would think that if asked.

Most teachers think the country has a moral duty to reopen schools too. However, they also know what is feasible.

Nobody who thinks teenagers should be in school full-time has commented on the overcrowding on classrooms and the fact that social distancing cannot take place. Is it moral to expose teenagers to risks which the rest of the population are told to avoid?

I do not think that generally there is a move to want children not to get back to school - there does seem to be a consensus on this.

The issue is how to do this safely - for the children, for the staff and for those who share their home with the children and might themselves be vulnerable. There was a delightful young man on the news who said he lives with his gran and is worried about conveying the virus to her.

The real issue is how it should be achieved, not whether it should be done. There are many challenges on the ground in trying to achieve this: one the one hand the government (quite rightly) wants schools to maintain safety for children and staff under the very stringent safeguarding rules; but on the other hand does not provide the funds to make this happen. As I have explained before, extra staff are needed, extra accommodation, extra hygiene equipment etc. Schools cannot conjure these out of thin air (however much they might wish to) and there is no slack at all in their budgets.

And so in typical Gransnet form we are back to teachers again.

Yawn. Goodnight

I think most parents with school age children will think that our society has a moral duty to start up the schools come September.Not only those with children actually, but the great majority of the population would think that if asked.

Once again no one has said schools shouldn't open just that the opening will be far more complicated than BJ is trying to pretend.
The idea that there are few children with health issues is quite amusing. In one very small school I taught in- around 100 children- we had 2 diabetics, 2 undergoing cancer treatment, 1 awaiting heart surgery at least 10 asthmatics and a few other illnesses such as kidney problems. Those children deserve an education where their safety is paramount.
It would be nice to see a government which accepted it has a moral duty to fund education properly.

He can ask others to show morality whether people will listen to that request because of their view of his morality is another question.

boat

OK lemongrove, so we send all the kids back to secondary school and after six months or so the problem will be solved because some of them will have died and others will be suffering from long term physical defects due to the virus that will keep them out of mainstream education.

Then off course, some of them will have lost their parents and will be fostered away from their home area.

I have not heard of anything being set up to track this sort of thing.

Have I missed something.

Yes, you have missed using some common sense, and are using high drama when it isn’t needed.
We don’t know if there will ever be a 100% effective vaccine
So teachers cannot hide away on full pay for a year or more.
Children need their education and being back to a reasonably normal school day.Parents need to go back to work, if they cannot work effectively from home.
Parents of children who have physical reasons to stay shielding at home will have a good case to carry on, but that would be very few really.Teachers who are older and have underlying health conditions would also have a good case to carry on working from home, but the vast majority should go back.
I think the case of ‘morals’ has been answered now by many posters, that not being regarded by some to have any ( or few)
Does not mean that ( in the case of a PM) he cannot ask others to show morality.

would you want your child there.
Well, they are - teaching.
As for my DGC - it's not my decision to make, but yes.

I see the narrative has changed

Callistemon it's easy to state generally that vulnerable children should not return to school, but the question is would you want your child there? If you don't send them you risk being fined. There is also now a clear link between Covid complications and obesity, with much higher numbers of poorer children obese, are these children more at risk?
I don't think anyone has said schools shouldn't open just that they need to make sure children and staff are properly protected.

Yes, I do know.

But some children have missed out on a lot more by not being in school

Callistemon

But I am the aunt of medical staff too, a doctor, nurses, pharmacists.
They have all continued working throughout.

Indeed. As have teachers been working. It’s not a competition.

Callistemon

Lucca

Sorry my post was not very well written I am just so disappointed at the unwillingness of people to see the point of view of those involved in education.

Are you speaking for the whole of the teaching profession?

I know several who wish to get back to educating their pupils and some who are.

Did I say I was speaking for the whole profession ? I don’t understand the rest of your post sorry. My point is that in my opinion teachers DO want to get back to teaching their pupils provided they are given clear guidelines and the possibility to teach as safely as possible.