Is morality something you expect of others?

I agree with all your post easybee

The schools have had many, many weeks to prepare for an eventual reopening. They need to incorporate safe distancing, to use all the space in the school building, identify suitable external premises, (church & village halls, library, scout hut, cricket and football pavilions, youth club all available within a two mile radius of my local school ), draw up rotas, adapt timetables and use of staff. This is what the senior management teams, governing bodies and very expensive consultants should have been doing right from the start, identifying problems and possible solutions, and I am sure many have.

But there are far too many 'educational experts', usually college lecturers who haven't taught for years, pontificating about the problems and spreading alarm and despondency instead of identifying needs and taking a positive, practical attitude to probable solutions.
If I had children of school age I would send them in tomorrow; I have already volunteered to help hear readers to catch up. This is a national crisis. Absolutely nothing to do with the Prime Minister's morals.
(I taught for years in mobiles with 36 pupils, then open plan classrooms designed for 24 pupils with 6 in the corridor 'doing activities'and no chairs, so I know what it is like.)

My 13 year old grandson is desperate to go back to school (a comp) as are his parents. He misses everything about school particularly his friends on a daily basis. If he could go back for a few hours each week it would be something, but not to go at all will be very challenging for him and thousands like him. He has two grownup sisters,and they,like us do their best,but it's his own friends and school environment he wants and needs not family grownups and third hand teaching which he is beginning to refuse to do! We are desperately hoping that he can return in the autumn,be it only in a reduced capacity. Grandad is quite right, parents and children will be more than disappointed if school remaims closed till?!!!!!!!

As for our GC one is in college in a Scandinavian country, two are in nursery and if the schools are not back properly the rest will have private tutors.

So according to the anti-government brigade schools should remain shut!!!!

Those in private schools and who’s parents can afford private tutors will be fine and dandy, those from less wealthy families just discarded to zoom classes if they are fortunate enough to have the technology and broadband. Even if the government provides laptops/tablets for each child these children are being denied an education and the haves and the have nots divide will just get wider........or is that what the unions want so they can blame it all on the government?

Ellianne - what do you mean by 'classsize of 20?'.

If you have, as most classrooms have, 15 double desks - how does the number 20 help?

Elliann, how brave of you to talk about a private school! I'm not sure that on here they would be part of the equation !!!

Johnson is abusing the word “morality” it is not a moral issue he is playing with our emotions as usual. Of course we should educate our children, this year will be different because of Covid 19, extra health precautions will be needed.

It is almost certain that an element of online education will be needed, we have had experience of that in the past few months, there is plenty of time to improve on that, so get on with it.

To expect all children to return to the classroom full time is unrealistic in my opinion

Grandad1943 I wouldn't think to speak for "the whole nation" and neither I think should you. There are a substantial number of parents who have themselves health problems or who have children with health problems. Many of these are hidden problems which for the most part don't impinge on the child's education and which most parenst and teachers take in their stride. The impact of the virus on those children and/or their parents could be disastrous. So before you start pontificating about what will happen you might consider those people and how they will be managed. Because all the indications are they won't be safe in schools. If it was your GC with a health problem you might be looking at things differently.

Yes, the government is hoping that the blame can be shifted to teachers, when it is responsible for the lack of realism and poor testing and tracking. Fortunately, most sensible people see through the smoke and mirrors, including scientists and the government's own advisors.

Grandad1943

Luckygirl

It's just a soundbite - like most things he says it is without substance.

The whole school thing has not been thought through. If a teacher develops symptoms/tests positive or is asked to self-isolate because he/she has been in contact with someone infectious out of school, then there will be a class with no teacher (in primary) and no spare teachers to pick up that slack. And no money to pay for relief staff.

And what happens to that class? Will they be considered to be contacts and asked to isolate - and kept from school? And the other staff sitting in the staff room - will they also be contacts who will be asked to self-isolate?

The whole pack of cards will come tumbling down.

If, if, if. Essential industries throughout the crisis have had to overcome potential ifs and very real actual problems to keep us all supplied with food, water and energy throughout this crisis.

Does anybody think that hundreds of people working and constantly moving about on a large supermarket distribution centre can be made one hundred percent safe, of course they can not.

Those essential employees have just "got on with it" and the education profession must now adopt the same attitude or the fury of this whole nation will be very much vented down on them in September.

You said it! They're constantly moving about and they have a choice to wear a mask. School pupils will be crammed into poorly ventilated spaces in cramped conditions and will be expected to be with the same group for five hours. Even you can surely grasp the reality.

But school nurses aren't available. We have to deal with reality.

Maybe you should write to your MP and urge him/her to increase funding to schools.

Luckygirl

It's just a soundbite - like most things he says it is without substance.

The whole school thing has not been thought through. If a teacher develops symptoms/tests positive or is asked to self-isolate because he/she has been in contact with someone infectious out of school, then there will be a class with no teacher (in primary) and no spare teachers to pick up that slack. And no money to pay for relief staff.

And what happens to that class? Will they be considered to be contacts and asked to isolate - and kept from school? And the other staff sitting in the staff room - will they also be contacts who will be asked to self-isolate?

The whole pack of cards will come tumbling down.

If, if, if. Essential industries throughout the crisis have had to overcome potential ifs and very real actual problems to keep us all supplied with food, water and energy throughout this crisis.

Does anybody think that hundreds of people working and constantly moving about on a large supermarket distribution centre can be made one hundred percent safe, of course they can not.

Those essential employees have just "got on with it" and the education profession must now adopt the same attitude or the fury of this whole nation will be very much vented down on them in September.

It should be available to ALL schools growstuff. I wish.

Yes, *trisher, sadly school nurses no longer exist in the state sector. She costs the school £50k a year.
Class sizes of 20.
It might be another world, but it is a "can do" world.

Visas have been shown not to protect the wearer.

How big are the classes in this private school Ellianne? How many pupils are there in total?

My local comprehensive school has 2300 pupils. Almost certainly, there will be a few symptomatic pupils every day. They don't have a nurse. How many would be needed to test all of them (and the staff) every day?

Grandad1943

Apparently the government are also taking to the Health & Safety Executive in regard to schools fully reopening in September and that body has been in touch with safety organisations that regularly carry out work for the Safety Executive on a contractual basis.

In the above it is demonstrated the government's determination that ALL CHILDREN will be learning in their schools in September.

I believe also that Johnson has the overwhelming majority of the British population behind him in that determination.

So how exactly would any organisation make a classroom safe, where teenagers are crammed in so closely?

It doesn't matter how good the safety organisation is. It doesn't work.

Practical suggestions rather than empty words would be useful.

It's just a soundbite - like most things he says it is without substance.

The whole school thing has not been thought through. If a teacher develops symptoms/tests positive or is asked to self-isolate because he/she has been in contact with someone infectious out of school, then there will be a class with no teacher (in primary) and no spare teachers to pick up that slack. And no money to pay for relief staff.

And what happens to that class? Will they be considered to be contacts and asked to isolate - and kept from school? And the other staff sitting in the staff room - will they also be contacts who will be asked to self-isolate?

The whole pack of cards will come tumbling down.

Ellianne Do you know the staffing ratio for your private prep school? And a school nurse!!! I remember those. Long gone of course in state schools.

Sussexborn if only it were a question of just not approving of the prime minister. It isn't just about HIS morals (although they certainly come into it) it's a question of shifting the "moral duty" from a government, that has steadily and succesfully underfunded education for years, onto the teachers and parents struggling to make decisions about what is best for their children in the face of very real and complicated conditions.

Apparently the government are also taking to the Health & Safety Executive in regard to schools fully reopening in September and that body has been in touch with safety organisations that regularly carry out work for the Safety Executive on a contractual basis.

In the above it is demonstrated the government's determination that ALL CHILDREN will be learning in their schools in September.

I believe also that Johnson has the overwhelming majority of the British population behind him in that determination.

You couldn't really teach in a mask, maybe not in a mask, Trisher, but Science, Art, Food Technology teachers are being advised to wear a visor. There is, of course, a safety issue here if a pupil needs rescuing from a dangerous situation. Teachers have a duty to protect their pupils first and foremost. Maybe teachers of other subjects could take up the visor option.
I'm not blowing trumpets again here, but in my GC's private prep school the nurse will be on hand to check daily temperatures and to perform tests if necessary. Year groups with a case in them will be quarantined immediately. The school sees it as its moral duty to keep everyone safe. Luckily the school took the initiative to open completely in June, so their new methods are tried and tested, and the parents' confidence in the school has been restored. I can report there were no cases of coronavirus during that time.

Grandad ,nearly everyone on here has a first class degree, were, and still believe they are, experts in the teaching profession, be it all some years ago! their morals are impeccable and I'm afraid your comments don't stand a chance of any kind of reasoned conversation!
Many people, even well known people, broke and are still breaking lockdown including dear old Jeremy. Are we to seriously believe that the actions of one person completely scuppered government advice! I know we are a pretty stupid nation , but surely not that bad?,!

Why can't teachers wear masks? Because the government has told them not to!! It's in the guidance.

How would you make a classroom safe with so many pupils crammed into a small classroom?

It could be a very interesting thread if you could come up with a solution. Maybe there would be something to discuss.

What Johnson said was grandstanding, presumably to take the moral high ground away from Starmer.

So disappointing! I thought this was going to be an interesting thread not another opportunity for the Boris Bashers to gang up together once more. Hard to believe that anyone would be stupid enough to flout the rules because they don’t approve of the prime minister.

If the medical professionals can work for hours and hours wearing masks why can’t teachers teach wearing a mask? At least they can take breaks every few hours - not something that happens that much when you work for the NHS.