Is morality something you expect of others?

biba Exactly! I regularly taught classes with 35 pupils with only 32 desk spaces and chairs. We were forever borrowing chairs from neighbouring classrooms.

In case Grandad missed it, I'll post the picture of a typical classroom again.

Grandad1943

growstuff, whatever the problems are it is clear from the government that children WILL BE returning to there schools in September.

The Education profession have surely been aware that the above would be the situation and therefore should now be working with government and the Health & Safety Executive to overcome any problems in that restart by action both in and outside the schools

It is working with health and safety organisations. The conclusion is that it will be a disaster unless there is efficient testing and tracking, which there currently isn't. Schools need to be shut down with absolute minimum delay when cases are identified.

I can almost guarantee that secondary schools will not be open every day for all pupils from September. Maybe you could explain why a number of organisations have been given government grants to develop online teaching materials, so that schools can offer a combination of face to face and online learning.

Have you been near a state secondary school and classroom recently Grandad1943? Probably not from your comment.

Most classroom have double desks to accommodate 30 pupils on double desks, and barely space to move around. Some top 'sets' often have 30 to 34, with some having to sit at the end of a double desk sideways, so 3 for some desks. Working with the government and the H&SE is NOT going to solve that.

If youd halve classes so some distancing can take place-perhaps a huge number of mobile classrooms in grounds (so many having been sold anyhow) where are you going to find the teaching staff to teach x2 the number of classes. And what aabout specialist classrooms equipped for specialist subjects- like science? Cloud and cuckoos come to mind.

Teachers are willing and will do what is needed. Teachers are already planning to adapt, including not marking physical books and not allowing singing or chanting in the classroom. Rather than pupils moving from one classroom to another, the teachers will be the ones moving around. Schemes of work have been adapted.

It's the government which needs to step up to the mark and accept the realities. It also needs to put a bomb under the test and track system to get it working, which it currently isn't.

growstuff, whatever the problems are it is clear from the government that children WILL BE returning to there schools in September.

The Education profession have surely been aware that the above would be the situation and therefore should now be working with government and the Health & Safety Executive to overcome any problems in that restart by action both in and outside the schools

Suziewoozie I wholeheartedly agree with your comment. The big problem I have is trying to set aside my inability to trust and believe anything this administration, in particular Johnson say, although I do acknowledge that children must get back into school. As far as I am concerned, he lost any right to tell anyone what they should do after he defended the Cummings fiasco, and that's without airing my well known opinion of his personal morality. It is an indication of the arrogance of the man that he doesn't see the possible consequence of using words such as 'moral responsibility',

trisher it is possible to teach in a face shield.

Schools need to be open our young deserve a full education.

If staff have underlying health problems then they should be redeployed. They could mark pupils work, prepare lessons and shoulder some of the bureaucracy of those teachers who are actually teaching.

There needs to be a consensus across the teaching profession to get on and adapt to teaching with Covid-19 being around. It is not going to disappear overnight, a vaccine is still very much theoretical.

Sitting pupils in front of a computer, tablet or smartphone in their bedroom is not an education and to my mind is morally wrong to withhold the education which is their right.

*full-time

Look at the picture I posted. Would you expect office or factory workers to be that close to each other for five hours a day?

Grandad1943

growstuff in regard to your post @11:57 today I believe it is being reported that over fifty percent of children have not done well with the online learning they have received throughout the period of the school closures.

Therefore it is important that children receive a very large percentage of their learning once more in a physical classroom learning environment where full teacher support is available and that of other children in their year group.

Whatever problems there are to be overcome then that must be accomplished. Anything less will be a failure of those children who are already being referred to as the "Covid Generation.

I accept that many pupils have not done well out of school, so the moral duty is for the government to ensure that they are taught in a safe environment. Secondary schools will not be safe, if they are accepting full classes full-tie. It's as simple as that. They need to introduce a rota system. The government also needs to deliver the laptops it promised.

The home tests have been stopped because they were shown not to be reliable. Testing needs to be compulsory and results back within 24 hours. That's not happening.

The nearest testing station to me is 15 miles away and public transport is poor.

People in museums, theme parks etc aren't crammed together like sardines as they will be in a classroom, many of which are poorly ventilated.

Schools have been advised by the government not to let their staff or pupils wear masks and some schools have actually banned them.

GrannyGravy13 You couldn't really teach in a mask. And all of the situations you are using are things you could choose to do. No one is pressuring you to do them and no one is accusing you of being in breech of your "moral duty" if you choose not to do them. But teachers who may fear for themselves and some of their pupils are being so pressured and by someone whose moral failures are acknowledged by everyone.

growstuff in regard to your post @11:57 today I believe it is being reported that over fifty percent of children have not done well with the online learning they have received throughout the period of the school closures.

Therefore it is important that children receive a very large percentage of their learning once more in a physical classroom learning environment where full teacher support is available and that of other children in their year group.

Whatever problems there are to be overcome then that must be accomplished. Anything less will be a failure of those children who are already being referred to as the "Covid Generation.

.If it is safe for people to fly (including teachers and school age children), if it is safe for them to go to museums, cinemas, theme parks, sea life centres, supermarkets, indoor shopping centres, restaurants etc. and gather in numbers at various friends houses it is safe for them to go to school.

There is nothing wrong with staff wearing masks and visors as children of all ages are now used to seeing them.

Testing is available, we have a drive through testing station close by, it us possible to get a test sent out to your home. As for tracing schools know pupils addresses.

Grandad1943

I would certainly not in any way think that Boris Johnson is a moral person. Nonetheless, the message that Boris gave out was a call to the morality of the whole country.

That Message is that ALL CHILDREN have to be brought back into full-time school based education in September for anything short of that situation would be a moral failure by all to those children.

To that message I one hundred percent subscribe, and so should all.

How moral is it to place teenagers and staff in an unsafe situation?

I subscribe to a view which is responsible and does not put anybody at unnecessary risk.

It would be possible to have pupils all back on a rota system, combining face to face with online learning. I suspect that's what might end up happening in secondary schools. Contingency plans are already being put in place.

^What 'group of people' are you thinking of here,Ellianne?
Because, as far as I can see,noneof the government has any morals; to pretend that they do just intensifies the insult to those who actuallydohave morals.^

I'm thinking also of some of the scientists MaisieD. A couple of them seemed to have moral integrity and kept their personal lives out of it. I would be surprised if they haven't given some input and advice, as they were constantly reviewing the situation with schooling.

I would certainly not in any way think that Boris Johnson is a moral person. Nonetheless, the message that Boris gave out was a call to the morality of the whole country.

That Message is that ALL CHILDREN have to be brought back into full-time school based education in September for anything short of that situation would be a moral failure by all to those children.

To that message I one hundred percent subscribe, and so should all.

This is a typical secondary school classroom. How safe does it look to you?

GrannyGravy13

He is correct in as much as we know enough to reopen schools to all pupils safely, we have a moral duty to do so

Our Children and Grandchildren need to be in school for their educational and emotional needs and it is beyond doubt that all in education/ early years should work together to ensure that schools open as normal in September.

Yes, we do know how to open schools safely BUT we won't be opening them safely. Primary schools might be relatively safe because children under 10 seem to be less prone to being infected. However, at secondary level, where pupils are just as prone to infection and infectious as adults, the decision to have full classes full-time is downright immoral.

Pupils can't sit further than a metre apart because classrooms are too small. I've seen the details some schools are planning, but it's still a disaster waiting to happen.

There is still no adequate testing and tracking system in place, which every scientist says is a prerequisite. It's the government's moral duty to make sure there is, so maybe that's what he meant.

There’s marrying more than once and then there’s tomcatting around whilst your children are young, impregnating various women, some of whom go on to have your child and others who abort, lying about your affairs/ children, and then there’s supporting the man who runs the country who flouts the rules on lockdown, giving peerages to your own brother, a loafish cricketer, multimillion pound contracts to friends/relatives of friends for services/products not fit for purpose. There’s lying to every employer you’ve ever had, at the dispatch box and podium - in fact every time you open your mouth. There are many ways in which a persons morality can be judged in their personal,life, their working life and Johnson fails every single one of them.

There is also the issue of how people behave influencing the public more than what they say. Cummings visit to Durham was followed by an abandoning of lockdown, but BJ thinks he can influence the public by preaching.

Jabberwok

B.J is not the only person in high office to have led a colourful private life! or anywhere else come to that, even on here, God forbid!!!!! These moralistic comments are so sanctimonious, a lot of people marry more than once and have affairs, dear old Jeremy for one comes to mind!

The man's private sex life is the least of the problems, Jabberwok.

He's a stinking sewer of immorality wherever you look.

Ellianne

I think by saying "WE have a moral duty" he is adding weight to the decision made by a small group of people.
It is so difficult to separate the political life from one's personal life when you're in a goldfish bowl.

What 'group of people' are you thinking of here, Ellianne?

Because, as far as I can see, none of the government has any morals; to pretend that they do just intensifies the insult to those who actually do have morals.

B.J is not the only person in high office to have led a colourful private life! or anywhere else come to that, even on here, God forbid!!!!! These moralistic comments are so sanctimonious, a lot of people marry more than once and have affairs, dear old Jeremy for one comes to mind!

Galaxy

I want even thinking of his private life I was thinking of his morals in public life.

As he doesn't have any morals in either his private or public life the distinction means nothing to me.

He should have just said 'We have a duty to..etc' It would have conveyed the same idea and been just as effective, or, even, more effective.

But the stupid man just can't resist the temptation to use hyperbole all the time, can he?