Is morality something you expect of others?

Schools would do rotas, but would parents and employers be happy with them?

Don’t forget the old (as we are constantly reminded of on these forums) “teachers are not childminders” Elegran . unless it’s to enable Keyworkers to go to work and then they can be .

Yes the only reason I sent mine back was because he was going to staff I knew and trusted.

Great post Elegran and it's notjust teenagers who can suss out an easy target I've met some much younger children who knew how to wind up the newcomer. I was also thinking of all the children coming back into school who will have had a traumatic time at home, either through mistreatment or through family bereavements. They will not be in a fit state to begin learning immediately and teachers will have to cope with them, without even the comforting arm round the shoulders to help. Anyone who thinks education will just be exactly as it once was is living in cloud cuckoo land.

No, Grandad No-one on here has said that rotas won't work. Schools have been told NOT to have rotas but to have ALL children getting FULL-TIME education. That means NO ROTAS. Schools would do rotas, but would parents and employers be happy with them?

They have not said that using external premises won't work, but that they can't expect businesses to offer their premises for nothing when the businesses themselves are not getting enough income to survive, and the schools just don't have spare money for these unforeseen expansion expenses, or enough experienced supervisors for at least twice as many groups of teenagers as they normally have in class.

Do you remember being a teenager at school when the usual teacher was off sick and a temporary substitute had the unenviable task of supervising? You could suss out the ones without experience within ten minutes of them entering the classroom - and that was without several months at home in which to forget your classroom manners.

Do you really read the posts on here, or do you just post repeats of your own prejudices, whatever anyone else says?

Do you just like seeing how often you can repeat your mantras?

Luckygirl

A U-turn!! This is just one other thing that school leaders have been grappling with - moving goalposts!

Indeed! I wonder how the government will spin it. The attempt to insist that only teachers had a moral duty has backfired, even after the media stunts yesterday. I don't know how they can live with their lies.

They tried to blame the unions, but that backfired too. The unions (teaching unions plus Unison and GMB) have insisted all along that schools should reopen for all pupils and have been issuing practical guidance for headteachers, in the absence of realistic and detailed guidelines from the government. The government doesn't have a Plan B, which is why headteachers have gone ahead and produced their own Plan Bs.

A U-turn!! This is just one other thing that school leaders have been grappling with - moving goalposts!

I don't know about secondary schools nor about state schools for that matter, but yes Galaxy, it was a brilliant 6 weeks of teaching I witnessed at several schools in the summer term. Lots of outdoor learning, and church halls and sports clubs certainly didn't charge for their use. The Heads had the best of relationships with the local community before Covid, so maybe that is why.

Bets on for a U turn on the nation's moral duty?

There are reports that No 10 has asked England’s chief medical officer to review the evidence on coronavirus in schools. That's not what you do if you're already "following the science". I wonder if the fact that just about all scientists have been warning against what the government wants has anything to do with it!

Galaxy

Yes it is I was making the point that teaching staff have been flexible in their approach, my sons secondary used rota systems and zoom teaching.

Yes, I've heard of some innovative teaching too. Despite what a couple of posters seem to think, teachers are actually very creative and used to thinking on their feet.

Yes it is I was making the point that teaching staff have been flexible in their approach, my sons secondary used rota systems and zoom teaching.

Galaxy

My sons school used outside teaching, using forest school teaching, teepees etc. As did all of the schools in the area.

Presumably it's a primary school. I honestly can't see my local comp taking 2,300 pupils into the woods! It's usually bad enough trying to stop them nipping off behind a hedge for a ciggie (or something stronger).

My sons school used outside teaching, using forest school teaching, teepees etc. As did all of the schools in the area.

The other big barrier is of course the cash involved. Community centres, church halls and all other premises have charges for their usage. Now perhaps if the government had given schools the right to take over these places without charge there might be some action taken, as it is the negotiations involved, the unsustainable expenses and the health and safety issues all make it almost impossible. I said why not contact your MP about hand sanitiser, well there's another reason, ask for the right to use other premises without expense.

Grandad: I am afraid I have to say that constantly on this forum and others we have witnessed members of the teaching profession stating that rota systems, use of outside buildings, the full return of all pupils etc could not work.

Eh? I have suggested more than once that a rota system should be introduced.

Have we been truly Trumpified?

Dinahmo

Lucca

* The French don't really care about the private lives of their senior politicians but then they are not preached at by them.*

Wow stereotyping or what !!

Lucca so Lemongrove with her comment about the French taking it in their stride isn't stereotyping?

Absolutely it was ! Sorry if I wasn’t clear

Grandad , one of the problems is that school buildings differ greatly, so what would work in one place is a no go area in another.You also have to look at the age range from 3yr olds to 18 year olds. They all need different things . Elegran has noted all these things and more.Schools are doing what they can, while safeguarding.Please let's have some praise for them.
By the way wasn't it good to see a leader stand up and apologise for the dreadful errors compounded in the Scottish results, instead of making excuses and passing the buck . It must be so hard for the young pupils and their teachers but at least Nicola Sturgeon is trying to turn it round .

we have witnessed members of the teaching profession stating that rota systems, use of outside buildings, the full return of all pupils etc could not work.

This is simply not so. The school where I am governor used all of these strategies from the moment the children returned last term; as did all my GCs' schools.

Schools have been Keeping an open mind to all proposals and initiatives - we have trawled through many ideas and consulted widely.

I absolutely endorse the idea of a phased return - it makes total sense. But the government wants all children back in September. Some schools will go for a phased return anyway and hang the government. Quite right too - they must deal with what is right locally and in their particular circumstances.

My small rural school is lucky to have large grounds and the support of the community in making use of the community hall; but winter will present further problems when the children cannot be outside for lessons.

Schools are innovating and getting on with the job in hand - but they do not need BJ's rhetoric - they need support, financial and other advice.

Oh Elegran if only people would read what you have written !!

Elegran in regard to your post @07:50 today, I am afraid I have to say that constantly on this forum and others we have witnessed members of the teaching profession stating that rota systems, use of outside buildings, the full return of all pupils etc could not work.

However, it is now good to see that those in education who are prepared to see such new initiatives brought into practice are now coming to the fore.

As in many working sectors what now lies in front of the teaching profession will not be easy and not all initiatives will meet with instant success. However, there is much experience that the education sector can now draw on from outside, and the Health and Safety Executive, our own company have found, have been beyond excellence throughout the crisis.

Keeping an open mind to all proposals and initiatives is the key to success and saved many businesses in this crisis and I have no doubt with the right people now coming to the fore, education will very soon also be operating once again to its full potential.

I really don't think what we say about what should happen in schools will make any difference . Johnson comes out with his rhetoric , whether or not its achievable,is reluctant to give advice,so others can be blamed and so on. Sage has said they think a rota would be a good idea, but they are out of favour. The children's zsar has asked for testing, Nick Gibb says no, not necessary(probably because the testing system is in such disarray )Public Health England have said (Times this am)that tougher rules are likely to be needed for older children, but Gavin Williamson said a study showed there was little risk in government plans for children to get back . and so it goes on
with everyone at the mercy of an inept , self seeking government.
I still think that a lot of the P.M.'s bluster is to cover up matters . He seems to have a good idea as I dont see many people being anxious about Jenrick's activities, about Cumming's pals getting contracts, about lies told, about the ~Tory failure to withdraw the Whip from the M.P.who should resign. These things do matter in terms of the legacy we leave for our grandchildren. Don't they ?

I completely agree that our PM is such a bad example of morality, especially to the younger generation. He was living with another whilst still married, has illegitimate children and left his last wife whilst she was having treatment for cancer!

I should have said, "out of a budget which they received well before Covid appeared, which had already been fully allocated for the year, and which has been shrinking steadily for decades" rather than using terms that imply that individuals are shelling out.

Yes, Grandad, phased return could and should happen, a rota system could and should happen, shifts could and should happen, using other premises could and should happen. All these things have been said over and over again by the teachers and ex-teachers on Gransnet, and by teachers and teachers' unipons in the media and else where.

I will repeat it again - the unions and almost all teachers are not whinging that they can't do it or they don't want risk their own health, but saying that they are not allowed to do certain things and starved of money from their ultimate employers, Johnson and co to do other things that have to be paid for.

No-one is denying what the medical profession has done - but nurses were not asked to seek out, rent, furnish and maintain space in church halls to put two thirds of patients in as make-shift hospitals and to buy extra equipment out of their own pockets as well as to work long tiring hours in the front line - if they had been expected to, there would have been an outcry.

trisha when my GC started school last September @ 4 yrs old the intake was 40 split into two classes each with a teacher and two full time TA’s.

This is a state school the same one as my DD attended which has maintained its staffing levels.

A staged return of employees is the policy adopted by many employers and one which is proving to be very good practise.

Schools I feel could adopt similar practice by setting up group bubbles originally with only twenty five percent of each group attending in the first week. Should all the safety regime work well then a further twenty five percent can then be added in the second week until all children are back in school learning by the end of September.

Where space does not allow for social distancing two-shift systems could be introduced which is also a practice which has been adopted by many employers. A further alternative could be the use of outside premises such as church halls or council owned buildings which contain meeting rooms.

Thinking outside the box is and has been the key in the unprecedented situation every sector of society has found itself in throughout this crisis. Each workplace has had to adapt to its own circumstance and schools must also think in those terms.