Is morality something you expect of others?

tickingbird

The teachers would, of course, like to bring the country to it’s knees if it brought about the downfall of this government. The end justifies the means for them I’m sure. The most bile and vitriol spouted about this government comes from those in that profession.

tickingbird I think you post is abhorrent.

I have several friends who were teachers until retirement and I've spent many hours arguing with them about how it is in the real world, particularly on the subject of holidays. But they are not trying to bring down the govt. About half of them are Tories and one is a bring back hanging and hunting and her children went to private school.

How dare you say that the most bile and vitriol comes from teachers. I will criticise them to their faces but your comments defy belief. Where are your facts or is the above just your opinion?

Schools should have carried out their own risk assessments, taken steps to minimise risk, as have all other workplaces to protect staff and patrons, and should be ready to open. Only teachers are obstructing the process of getting children back to school.
Of course there are risks but the education and mental health of our children should be balanced against the risks of infection and teachers need to step up.

What is really annoying me about all this pontificating about teachers is that posters are assuming that teachers aren't doing anything. And that they are somehow being wussy about opening schools up to all pupils (I nearly said 'going back to work' but most teachers have never stopped working since lockdown, apart from for legal holidays)

They certainly are 'balancing the risks' and one of the 'risks' for secondary children, who are as susceptible to Covid as slightly older adults, is the possibility of even a 'mild' attack causing them long term physical damage.

Over 18 year olds can take their own decisions but until then, adults are making decisions for them and they have a duty to make sure that the decisions are well informed and compatible with the young people's safety.

'Can do' and bugger the consequences is so irresponsible...

Ellianne

^Who says Boris Johnson was an excellent mayor of LondonEllianne?^
As a Londoner that is my opinion.

I suspect that you are in a minority, but that probably depends upon which part you live in.

I have always voted Conservative, but at the last general election, I just couldn't vote for an immoral leader like Boris so I voted Lib Dem. I object to being told what to do by someone with the morals of a tomcat. I do expect our leaders to try at least to be good moral characters, but Boris is so blatant about his personal life. I don't like the way he is incapable of stringing a sentence together either. How can we be expected to follow his instructions when we can't understand them?

Crossed posts, Luckygirl, but you are quite right!

Peardrop50, what makes you think that teachers are "obstructing the process of getting children back to school"? Do you actually know any teachers? My family members who are primary school teachers are now back in school getting ready for the pupils later in the week. I am concerned for their safety more than they are. They are ready to carry on with what they are being paid for, with just as much dedication as your average doctor or nurse, and I find your comments distasteful and insulting to another body of dedicated people.

Only teachers are obstructing the process of getting children back to school. - name me a teacher to which this applies. Seriously; just find me one. Send me their names.

If you cannot then this is pure prejudice, and not based on reason.

I certainly have not met one, and I am in touch with many during this planning process - they are all itching to get back - they just want it done properly and in an orderly safe fashion, and are falling over themselves to achieve this.

If all those with perfect morals were to say no more I suspect the thread will end here.

growstuff

Peardrop50

I haven’t previously joined in because it’s all so predictable. The usual ‘experts’ saying the usual things.
I would just like to say that in these unusual and unpredictable times we have to manage the risks as best we can. Children need to get back to school and receive the education that teachers are paid to provide.
I just thank goodness that our brave nurses didn’t take the same view of self importance as teachers when they walked selflessly towards danger in the hospitals.

How is caring about pupils' safety self important?

Schools should have carried out their own risk assessments, taken steps to minimise risk, as have all other workplaces to protect staff and patrons, and should be ready to open. Only teachers are obstructing the process of getting children back to school.
Of course there are risks but the education and mental health of our children should be balanced against the risks of infection and teachers need to step up.

Exactly westendgirl which is why I commented early on in the discussion as it seemed interesting. then it quickly turned into a thread about teachers, for teachers.

The original post was not about should children go back to school but about morals and in particular asks the question
" Can you expect morals from others if you don't have any personally ?"
It is an open question .

growstuff

The "other side of the argument" has been understood. The "know it alls" know how important it is that pupils return to school. They also know that there are issues which need to be addressed and shrugging shoulders and pretending they don't exist won't work.

I hadn't spotted any posters on this thread who want schools to stay closed for a long time, so I haven't a clue what you're on about.

Should anybody wish to discuss managing a supermarket, being a nurse or driving a forklift, I'm sure I'd be interested but I'm afraid I wouldn't have anything to contribute.

Unfortunately your last paragraph only reiterates Grandad1943's earlier point growstuff

Pretty much saying that if you are not a teacher, an ex teacher, a retired teacher, the mother or father of a teacher you have no place in this discussion. I wish the OP had made it more plain that only the aforementioned group of people need comment. The rest of us should shut up.

Interesting interview with Welsh education minister on TV. He talked of the goal of getting children back to school, but recognised the need to take it steadily, to get some children back initially and see how the systems might be changed or improved and then aim to get all children back by the end of September.

Now there is the voice of common sense. If only we had a leader who did not feel the need to talk in soundbites and make swashbuckling statements. The voice of thoughtful reason would get everyone on board and make it clear that the government is thinking in practical terms, and listening - listening!

Peardrop50

I haven’t previously joined in because it’s all so predictable. The usual ‘experts’ saying the usual things.
I would just like to say that in these unusual and unpredictable times we have to manage the risks as best we can. Children need to get back to school and receive the education that teachers are paid to provide.
I just thank goodness that our brave nurses didn’t take the same view of self importance as teachers when they walked selflessly towards danger in the hospitals.

How is caring about pupils' safety self important?

Jabberwok I agree with all you say. What a load of holier than though comments.

lemongrove

The know all attitudes of a few ( thankfully) posters are off putting for new posters to want to comment ,and tedious for those who have tried to put the other side of the argument.
So, no point really in commenting further, it will tail off after becoming an echo chamber for those who prefer schools to
Stay closed for a long long time because of course, they are the only ones who have any understanding of the situation ( in their eyes.)

Come on lemongrove. “Prefer schools to stay closed for a long time”. That’s not worthy of you, I’ve seen you put forward far more reasoned Arguments than that.

I am an ex teacher, but I do think children need to go back to school. My son and his wife have gone back to work now, although they worked at home during lockdown. My other son can still work from home mainly, but his partner was made redundant immediately after lockdown. My daughter and her husband worked throughout lockdown as key workers, and continue to do so. Anyone who seriously thinks schools that provided key worker childcare managed to keep children socially distanced during lockdown is living in cloud cuckoo land. Some may have, especially older children, but it didn’t happen in my grandchildren’s school.

I haven’t previously joined in because it’s all so predictable. The usual ‘experts’ saying the usual things.
I would just like to say that in these unusual and unpredictable times we have to manage the risks as best we can. Children need to get back to school and receive the education that teachers are paid to provide.
I just thank goodness that our brave nurses didn’t take the same view of self importance as teachers when they walked selflessly towards danger in the hospitals.

Callistemon I am not suggesting that teachers should do the childminding. I'm only pointing out the difficulties that working parents will have in ensuring that there is someone at home for the children when they are attending school at different times each day or having a 2 or 3 day week.

trisher can BJ even remember who his children are, let alone lecture them on morality ?

Ah - Donald Trump, Jair Bolsonaro, Boris Johnson - they're all so positive!

Unfortunately record numbers of their citizens have tested positive for covid19, otherwise their positivty is just great!

Does nobody here have positivity in their souls?
I wish Theoddbird.

Boris Johnson’s Mayoralty has cost London taxpayers at least £600 million of wasted money because of poor decisions, ideological dogma and vanity schemes.

www.wolmarforlondon.co.uk/600million_the_cost_of_boris.html

Of course this waste will be dwarfed by the cost of his damage to the UK.

Pupils as well

Teachers are educators, not childminders, Granny23.

They will be doing the best for their pups under the restrictions being imposed.