More immigrants crossing the Channel

Urmstongran

Well if you’re not an asylum seeker what term should be used growstuff? Maybe just an illegal migrant.

If rules aren’t followed why bother having any restrictions and rules in the first place? Surely they are put in place for a reason?

I don't understand what you mean.

It's accepted that people try to enter a country without a visa. In many cases, such as in Eritrea, people aren't allowed to hold passports, so can't apply for permission to leave the country.

Once a person enters British waters or steps on British land, he/she can apply to seek asylum, which has a legal status. Such people are not "illegal". They are legal asylum seekers.

If an asylum application fails and the person stays in the country, his/her status is irregular/illegal.

There is a very important difference, but the tabloids prefer to use the emotive, derogatory language because they know people can't be bothered to find out the difference and it stirs people up.

vegansrock

The U.K. is so shambolically run that once a migrant is here, whether in the back of a lorry, on a small dinghy or just overstaying a visa, they know that they won’t be found or sent back, can work cash in hand and the likelihood of getting found out is zero.

Not at all!
This will happen in some cases, where they manage to run off
After landing here, in a boat or a lorry, but it won’t be the key to much of a life, and will happen in other European countries, not just in the UK.
The migrants landing/taken onto border force boats will be driven to secure places, where they will stay whilst the asylum process takes place.

Urmstongran

Until 31 December 2020 the Brexit Transitional Period is still in place.

Which means that until then the migrants in Calais are a French responsibility and the UK has a legal right to return to France any who try and cross the channel and enter this country illegally.

For even if they're asylum seekers they should be making their claims in France.

No, it does not have a legal right to return them to France. That's an urban myth. Please see the previous posts on this issue.

lemongrove

vegansrock

The U.K. is so shambolically run that once a migrant is here, whether in the back of a lorry, on a small dinghy or just overstaying a visa, they know that they won’t be found or sent back, can work cash in hand and the likelihood of getting found out is zero.

Not at all!
This will happen in some cases, where they manage to run off
After landing here, in a boat or a lorry, but it won’t be the key to much of a life, and will happen in other European countries, not just in the UK.
The migrants landing/taken onto border force boats will be driven to secure places, where they will stay whilst the asylum process takes place.

I agree. Although there's a chance that asylum will be refused, they're probably in a better place in the long term.

I meant the ones who are intercepted are in a better place than those who overstay visas or manage to enter the country undetected and don't apply for asylum.

The obvious solution is to send them straight back to their own country, but the trouble is a lot of them are wise to that and destroy all their paperwork, thereby making it impossible to know where they came from.

It’s an appalling situation that boatloads are turning up day after day, but then we facilitate it by conveniently providing a free water taxi service.

No wonder we see them smirking at the tv cameras night after night.

Is it really beyond us to put a stop to this.? We are an island and the majority cross the Channel heading for the coast near Dover, so it’s not necessary to patrol our entire coastline.

Until we get to grips with this and word gets back to the rest that it’s hopeless, it will continue.

This has been going on for decades , and despite constant assurances that something will be done, it never is.

So it seems these migrants are fleeing from the hellhole that is er...France?

I agree with the poster who said Britain is thought of as the land of milk and honey. People shouldn't be allowed to just walk into another country and expect to be allowed to stay there. As a wealthy nation we should be helping them back in their own countries. This country is overcrowded, road building is going on everywhere and houses being built all over the place to the detriment of our beautiful countryside. When are we going to say enough is enough?

? ....and although I wouldn’t want to live there either, I can’t believe it’s worse than their country of origin Urmston

Agree with you LadyBella but no government will ever say enough is enough. I have met many asylum seekers from many countries and there are many genuine people but there are also the ones who are economic migrants not fleeing war or persecution but just want a better life. What I find annoying is the number of single young men. Where are the females and families? Syrians deserve some sympathy in my opinion as they are mainly families, the majority are highly educated and want to contribute to society. The people smugglers are the ones who need to be targeted. This problem seems to be getting worse but don’t think any government will have a solution in the foreseeable future.

JenniferEccles people fleeing Eritrea don't have any paperwork because the government won't issue them with passports.

Many have relatives in the UK and the forced military service and torture in Eritrea means they can claim asylum.

Rather than getting all hot under the collar, what exactly are you suggesting that the UK could do without breaking international treaties?

No Urmstongran They are fleeing the hellhole which is their country of origin. They are no more entitled or forced to stay in France than in the UK. Please do read the previous post about legal rights and possibly the original Dublin III Regulation. The only thing they cannot do is claim asylum in more than one country. After 31 December, there will be no agreement with France or any other EU country, so they will well and truly be the UK's responsibility.

Those who believe all asylum seekers are held somewhere safely in detention are misguided, There are thousands in communities throughout the U.K. Very few are returned to their countries of origin. If asylum is refused then the appeals process goes on for years. We also have no idea of how many have arrived undetected.

We don’t have any grip on who is in the country as we don’t have any sort of rigorous ID system, or any system of inspecting farms, factories or service industries for their employment practices. Perhaps we should look to our own failures before sneering at other countries who actually take far more refugees than we do.

Well maybe once they are ‘well and truly a U.K. problem’ growstuff from 1st January 2021 we might hopefully tackle it with better solutions because as things are now, it’s not working.

When you compare the numbers of refugees making it to this country, and those taken in by other countries, it shows what a selfish unfeeling country this is.
Maybe the Australian solution would please Brits, put them all on a small island well away so they can't contaminate us.

I don’t have a problem with legal immigration.
?

Urmstongran

Well maybe once they are ‘well and truly a U.K. problem’ growstuff from 1st January 2021 we might hopefully tackle it with better solutions because as things are now, it’s not working.

How exactly will we do that? Quite frankly, that's delusional. If anybody has told you otherwise, you've been conned. The UK will actually be in a worse situation that it is now with no theoretical option of returning them to their point of entry to the EU.

Here are the "rules of the wave" ...

Do you ever actually read the legal links people post?

Urmstongran

I don’t have a problem with legal immigration.
?

Good! Those who apply for asylum after arriving on a dinghy are in the UK legally. What's your problem?

Yet this table illustrates that the U.K. only manages to return 4% of immigrants unlike say, Finland who return 42%.

As I said upthread we seem to be viewed by traffickers as a soft touch. Word has gotten around. Why are we viewed as the best place to get to?

GrannyGravy13

They are economic migrants if they were refugees fleeing for their lives they would presumably have claimed asylum in the first safe country which I believe to be the law.

If you were fleeing a country in fear would you not want to be in a country where you knew at least a few words of the language? English is widely spoken and heard across the globe and although refugees may not be fluent they will be likely to have heard quite a bit of English via popular music and football to name but two areas.

We aren’t viewed as the “best place to get to” Many countries have Far more refugees/ migrants than the UK

If they are genuine why can't they go through the legal channels. They obviously have money to pay the gangs so they could use this money to rent somewhere and find work in the first country they arrive in.

Apparently once picked up in the UK they are put into hotels whereas we have homeless, even ex-military living on the streets!!!!

dizzyblonde

GrannyGravy13

They are economic migrants if they were refugees fleeing for their lives they would presumably have claimed asylum in the first safe country which I believe to be the law.

If you were fleeing a country in fear would you not want to be in a country where you knew at least a few words of the language? English is widely spoken and heard across the globe and although refugees may not be fluent they will be likely to have heard quite a bit of English via popular music and football to name but two areas.

English is taught in Eritrean schools and is the working language of a country, where there are a number of indigenous languages. The second biggest group of boat migrants is from Pakistan, where people often have family connections with the UK and most understand at least some English.

International law says nothing about people claiming asylum in the first safe country. The only rule is that they cannot make multiple applications. The Dublin Regulation, which will cease to be applicable in 2021, gives countries the right to deport to the country where people first entered the EU, but only if the point of entry can be proven.