Brown Sugar by The Rolling Stones

Huh? I wondered why you won’t talk about ‘Dave’ .....it may have been interesting.

Cross threads nagging lg?

Try it Gaga .....why be so defensive?

POGS, the N word is still in Of Mice and Men, which is taught in school. It is still in the texts of Toni Morrison, a giant of African American literature.

I am not entering into debate with you about the Dave tracks I have already taught, and will continue to teach. My students are able to enter intelligent debate about them. A shame it isn’t possible here, but horses for courses.

Katek The Rolling Stones did do a couple of songs about heroin, most notably Sister Morphine. I think there's a debate about whether Brown Sugar is about heroin.
There are a quite a few songs out there about heroin. Many people didn't realise when it came out that Golden Brown by the Stranglers is about heroin. Mind you the Stranglers did like to be controversial - Peaches for example.

Brown Sugar is actually a slang term for heroin, which is what I understand the song to be about.

Gagajo

Genuine question. You said earlier in the year you were going to include ' Dave ' in your teaching.

How do you feel about the word 'N***A being removed from so many things these days , literature, music, spoken word etc. and yet in music it is totally acceptable and has a strong presence through music such as DRILL/GRIME/RAP. The fact mysoginy , sexual exploitation, violence, incitement etc. is apparently acceptable to one part of society to be vocalised and not to another, perversely those who want such things banned are often shouting the loudest such as ' Dave ', are those who are unoffended when using it themselves.

Is there not an absolute conflict of interest and pure hypocrisy going on.?

What do you tell your students re using the word, how do you manage to find a pathway through it all? I am positive your students understand the conflict of interest but are they taught to be self expressive and free thinking and if they use the words such as N****a, Hoe that is acceptable on a certain level or taught why it is offensive and not to use it. Which side of the debate does your teaching fall on.

Or is seduction against the rules now

Very probably.

It's not just women who are the victims in these songs.
Bobby Goldsboro. Summer ( the first time)
She was 31 I was 17.
I still love the song.

Late to the party here but I can't understand the controversy about 'Baby, it's cold outside'. Surely that's just seduction? Or is seduction against the rules now?

I now realise that when I was 16 or so, I liked the song because it was a great tune, or I fancied the singer, or similar.

The words didn’t mean a lot, you just were immersed in it all.

It all seemed so simple.

Callistermon which is why certain songs get banned from radio etc, it's not about censorship, it's about keeping all the listeners happy. Which honestly should be fine and not upset people because they can still listen in their own way.

Newer generations may never hear of it but getting newer generations to appreciate older things (including us at times) isn't always possible

I we don't like it or it offends we don't have to listen to it.
No, I'm not hus target market but my DC or even DGD may have heard of him so perhaps we should be more aware.

I'd never heard of him until today GagaJo but I'll take your word for it! When I googled him, it made no reference to any novel called The Bluest Eyes though.

Kendrick Lamar is on some higher level English curriculums for his critiques on racist cultures. I appreciate his language is challenging, but so is the language in some texts that are taught. I would link that section that Chewbacca quoted with the male character in the novel The Bluest Eye by Toni Morrison. An in depth examination of the psychological effects of internalised racism.

I personally don’t teach him, but I do teach Dave, the British rapper. The depth in some of lyrics is very good. He uses a lot of higher level techniques, such as code switching and stream of consciousness.

I know before you even type it what some of the responses to my post will be. All I’d say in response is that you’re not his target market. I have other comments that I won’t make, because it’ll set you off!

There are millions upon millions of songs and probably thousands upon thousands that have potential to offend.

This raises a number of questions, eg. are the lyrics overtly or covertly discriminatory, or provocative, promote illegal behaviour or activity or do they offend personal sensibilities. Surely if it's the latter then it's each to their own, or is that too simplistic?

Wow by Kate Bush?
Cracked Actor by David Bowie?
Spirit of the age by Hawkwind?
Fembot in a wet t-shirt by Frank Zappa?

Are,any these songs discriminatory/provocative/promote illegal activity or are they no more than offending personal sensibilities?

I know what I think.

I remember singing a hymn at my primary school -

Over the sea there are little brown children
Mothers and fathers and babies there,
They have not heard of our Father in Heaven...

But I can't remember the rest. Perhaps its for the best. Perhaps we should all just stop singing.

And what about “Je t’aime”?

Still a very sexy song, love the tune.

It was banned also, remember listening to it on the jukebox in local pub, only chance we got to hear it.

?

ps I hope youtube never ban clips like this - brilliant satire on feminism and racism.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXM3Ch4FcDQ&pbjreload=101

Oopsminty - thanks for your explanation.
I also can't believe that any of our Beatles would write a racist lyric.
A bit like the writers of the character Alf Garnet in To Death Do us Part.
We're losing our appreciation of sense of humour and especially satire.

What’s new pussycat isn’t about a cat either

I'm yet to understand why some are offended by M&S naming a bra the colour tobacco.
What next? The banning of brown bread, Black Magic chocolates, black grapes and yes, brown sugar.
Dear oh lor, whatever's it coming to.

My ding a ling, my ding a ling. I want you to play with my ding a ling, once I was climbing the garden wall, I slipped an had a terrible fall. I fell so hard I heard bells ring! But held on to my ding a ling a ling! If I remember Mary whitehouse tried to ban this! I’m sure it got to number one for a few weeks

Hypocrisy abounds as per normal

Exactly this POGS; the old do as I say, not as I do routine. And there we are, bending over backwards trying to find names for the colours of knickers and bras that don't cause offence to someone.

Chewbacca

Easy to find aren't they.

I enjoyed the BBC series ' I MAY DESTROY YOU '. I think every single actor was brilliant and would not be surprised if Michaela Coel does not receive an award eventually, she more than deserves to.

I cannot put the series music lyrics up because they are as I have spoken about, black artistes literally pepper spraying the word 'n'* a at every opportunity and the rest.

That's what made me laugh when the BBC apologised for their reporter saying the word ' n****r' in a news report recently with I believe the blessing of the poor lad who had been reported as suffering a violent racial attack.

Hypocrisy abounds as per normal.