‘A’level results, not a level playing field.

lemongrove

Facts sometimes skewed to fit in with your own opinions growstuff and very anti the independent schools.
What I hope, is that instead of posters taking your ‘facts’ or mine or anyone on here, they do a lot of reading, and listening before they jump in ,and decide for themselves.
You do rather tend to set yourself up as the top armchair education expert on the forum ....you aren’t the only ex teacher by the way.

Wait.... facts are skewed... but algorithms are unbiased.

Goodness what a day to learn things

Seems the only “right” facts/thoughts/opinions are yours?

... and I'm sure the others won't - but don't see why they can't.

growstuff yes, as I said, one of the Oxford colleges. If I'd meant the whole university I'd have said so.

It really doesn't take away from the point though.

lemongrove

An algorithm can’t be unfair by it’s very nature.
What is shows is how state schools are dropping behind the independent sector, sadly.

Please do more research before stating such excrement.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algorithmic_bias

Surely it is only right that the correct facts are put on the site,.Opinions do matter , of course, but in this case it is important that posters make it clear.

I do feel for the students, for the teachers and for the parents who have been let down so very badly and think that support will be forthcoming for Andy Burnham for the stance he is taking. (considering legal action over the unfair A-level results process).
Yet another example of the complete shambles style of government .

The government's aim in specifying this algorithm seems to have been to maintain, exactly or closely, the distribution of grades from previous years.

This aim is not the same as being fair to pupils.

Those were expected to sit A-levels in England this year have been uniquely disadvantaged - firstly by not getting the teaching that they would have had since the beginning of lockdown, and secondly by not being able to sit the exams.

The most significant estimate of their results was that made by teachers. They have known these pupils for at least two academic years. They have seen how they performed in class, they have marked coursework, and they knew how the pupils had done in their GCSEs.

Exams measure the performance of a candidate on one day. If the pupils had sat the exam, some would have had a good day, and performed as well, or even better than expected. If they had a bad day, they would have done worse.

I heard one very experienced A-level teacher say that they weighed up all that they knew about the pupil and then awarded an estimated grade which was what they expected that pupil to achieve on a good day.

This seems fair - it gives them the benefit of the doubt, but obviously it would have resulted in an overall grade distribution which was better than previous years when some exam candidates did have a bad day.

I think that the process which the Scottish government were pressured into revising for this year's Highers - to accept the teachers estimated grades, is fair to pupils and should be adopted for English A-Levels.

After all - who is to say whether an individual pupil would have had a good day or a bad day?

The aim of preventing grade inflation is far less important than the aim of being fair to each individual candidate.

Apologies Lemongrove, I did not know that you were a 6th Form teacher, like many of us here.

Yes Mamie, and added to this it is a delicate time with everything else going on in their young adult lives. I just worry that more grief and distress may be caused by getting so wound up.

That is true Ellianne, but the A level and GCSE students will suffer the most immediate impact. It didn't have to be like this; there were plenty of warnings.
And if Michael Gove hadn't got rid of course work.....

Facts, figures, views, opinions, debates, arguments, comparisons, ........ it is what it is. I'm tempted to say "get over it" because A level pupils are not the only ones in this mess. GCSE pupils will be the next to suffer. The younger children have had their vital early education turned upside down too and that is unforgivable. It is such a disappointment all round. Maybe 2020 will just be viewed as that awful cruel year when it went wrong for everyone.

Thank you growstuff. As a retired inspector of schools I absolutely agree with your factual analysis. The results are a disgrace and a betrayal of the pupils concerned.

Good post Drum1234

As always, some people in life (and GN is a microcosm of life), refuse to accept facts and only look for views and opinions which validate their own. This thread is about the FACT that some pupils, mainly in state schools (because the cohorts are bigger) had their assessed grades downgraded in a very unfair manner. After the facts are pointed out, the Tory supporters have rushed to defend the system, even when it has been proved to be unfair. Labour supporters (and others) continue to try to find the facts that will persuade the Tories of the truth. The debate moves further and further away from the initial argument, and someone leaves after saying they've had enough, usually one who won't share (or more to the point, can't find) the evidence to back them up. I could read the comments on the thread and tell you who said what without looking at their usernames. It's frustrating to observe, and, as I said before, just like real life.
Anyway, sticking to the debate, the awarding of A level grades has been a disaster this year - just wait till next Thursday when the GCSE results are out.

This is how the results for subjects with 16 or more entries were calculated:

ffteducationdatalab.org.uk/2020/08/a-level-results-2020-how-have-grades-been-calculated/

Grade predictions were, in fact, consistent with previous years, as this chart from Cambridge Assessment shows.

Just under half of predictions were accurate within one grade compared with actual grades awarded. Depending on subject, an average of 35% were optimistic and 20% were pessimistic.

www.cambridgeassessment.org.uk/Images/561974-methods-used-by-teachers-to-predict-final-a-level-grades-for-their-students.pdf

If teacher assessments had been accepted in the past, there would have been about twice as many A*/A grades, as were actually awarded.

No lemongrove ALL schools give their pupils the benefit of the doubt with grade predictions, including private schools. Do you know how predictions compared with actual grades in previous years? It's a red herring anyway. Grades for the majority have not taken predictions into account.

GrannyGravy13

There are many Universities taking pupils mock grades as entry requirements.

There are also more University entrants this year than last (4.7%) I believe.

Yes, there are - surprisingly! I thought they might drop because freshers aren't really going to have the full experience, but I guess the job market and the shortage of worthwhile apprenticeships have affected demand.

As a last word from me about this subject, yes I do have knowledge of what teachers predict and why, both in the private and the state sector.All teachers will say ( publicly) that they only give totally honest predictions, but it certainly isn’t the case.
This year was so difficult to assess without the actual exams taking place, I think the right thing was done and to then allow appeals and make them free of charge.
Scotland did the same as England, but then panicked and caved in, meaning, as it would here, that results were heavily
Over inflated with regards to grades.
You have to ask yourselves ( if we did the same) is that fair to all pupils who took A levels last year and all who will do so again next year ....to see that pupils who didn’t actually sit their exams got much higher results?
It’s so easy to complain all the time and so hard to try and get things right.

biba70

growstuff, that is truly shocking. Thanks for the figures- do we have permission to share (what is the source btw).

The schools' own websites. I Googled a random selection.

Lemongrove says 'That’s sweet and naive MaizieD ... but you have no understanding as to what teachers do when it comes to predicting grades.'

and I do think she should give the source of this opinion- is it from personal experience.

From personal experience, I know that over-grading does happen in private institutions due to pressure (and purse) of parents.

growstuff, that is truly shocking. Thanks for the figures- do we have permission to share (what is the source btw).

lemongrove

That’s sweet and naive MaizieD ... but you have no understanding as to what teachers do when it comes to predicting grades.

Why would she have no understanding? Growstuff does but you don’t like her to explain. I know, a lot of my friends know. Sorry but I’m not clear what you want ? Should nobody share their knowledge based on experience ?

I also heard the head from that school talking about the geography results

dfemedia.blog.gov.uk

I have just read this blog and the statistics are very interesting.

There are many Universities taking pupils mock grades as entry requirements.

There are also more University entrants this year than last (4.7%) I believe.

growstuff am sure that you will be back to pick it up, this is a thread you will get your teeth into and enjoy.....but you will do it without me as I have learned over the years that it isn’t worth the effort. Getting an unbiased ‘truth’ just isn’t possible on forums.