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Let Your Voice Be Heard!

(59 Posts)
sparklingsilver28 Tue 18-Aug-20 16:21:59

The concerns expressed by recent “Panorama” programmes and Silver Voices regarding NHS care for the elderly raises very serious issues. It has been quite clear best treatment and care is not being made available to older patients based on age alone. There is however an example before us of what can be achieved with the appropriate care. HM the Queen 94 and her husband 99, I am sure no GP or NHS service would ever measure their healthcare worth based on age. It really is time to fight for an NHS that serves the needs of all patients. Many senior citizens will have paid into a healthcare/social system throughout a working life, and many still contributing via taxation; and discrimination on age infringes human rights and is also illegal. Make your voice heard on there behalf.

Bluecat Wed 19-Aug-20 13:49:09

I agree very strongly with the condemnation of the creeping privatisation of the NHS. It worries me deeply that the private sector is getting its hands on parts of our health care service, which will be the thin edge of the wedge leading to charging for care. My daughter lives in the USA and their insurance-based system is incredibly expensive, leaving many people bankrupt after a serious illness. It would be a disaster if the UK went down that road.

I owe my life to the NHS, on more than one occasion, and have no complaints about my treatment. However, I do wonder whether the criteria for treatment has begun to exclude patients on grounds of age. In the case of my M-i-L and F-i-L, both were in their late 80s when they were admitted to hospital, and neither received anything beyond "being made comfortable" as they died. Obviously, we would not have wanted intervention which would merely have prolonged their suffering, but I did wonder if they might have recovered. For instance, when I was in hospital in the 1960s, a fellow patient was 92 and making a good recovery after having a leg amputated. I don't know if that would happen now.

I feel that the care home situation during the pandemic has been a disgrace. It seems clear that people who stood a chance of recovery were not admitted to hospital but left to die without treatment. One woman on TV said that her mother said "Why me?" when told that she was not going to be admitted and given the oxygen that could have saved her life. The carers and her doctor had to tell her she was going to die, which she did. It seems utterly wrong that these people weren't given a chance. The mantra was "Stay home and protect the NHS" but we seem to have done that by leaving people to die in care homes.

Gwyneth Wed 19-Aug-20 14:23:52

Actually Maddyone most women do not have the choice of working part-time because they would not earn enough. They have to work full time. Yes I did work with two children with only 23 months between them.
My point is that because so many GPs are part time they are unable to provide the continuity of care that most patients require. This is the view of many of the people I know not just me.
Also the tax payer contributes a great deal financially towards training a doctor. If so many doctors only work part time is this value for money for the tax payer.

EEJit Wed 19-Aug-20 14:42:24

Last December I was diagnosed with knackered kidneys, both of them. Since then I have had nothing but great service from the NHS, that's everyone's from consultant down to nurses. Especially my renal nurse,and especially through covid-19.

I'm no youngster, I'm 68.

CC90 Wed 19-Aug-20 15:18:26

Your royal examples are not necessarily down to good health care though . Good nutrition and not having money worries may also have helped . Also good genes ! My mother was 99 when she died and certainly lived through an era of childhood mortality / poor nutrition etc so maybe she was lucky . But she had nothing but good care from the NHS . As have I !

maddyone Wed 19-Aug-20 15:22:43

Well I’m afraid people will just have to get used to the fact that many GPs, particularly female GPs, will choose to work part time whilst their children are young. All other women who have worked at least two years in a job have the right to ask their employers to consider allowing them to work part time after the birth of a child. Why should GPs not have the same rights that every other employee has? Complaining about continuity of care is a ridiculous argument. Do you think GPs should be on duty 24 hours a day, and seven days a week? Of course not, that would be ridiculous. Although I’ve seen comments on other threads that seem to suggest that people think GPs should be on duty all the time, just like the good old days eh?
People make far, far more visits to GPs and A+E Depts now than ever before. With hugely increased demand, no one can expect to see the same doctor every time.

Re tax payers paying for doctors to acquire their qualifications, well tax payers pay for everyone else to get themselves degrees, despite the high fees. If you’re going to argue about that, complain about the cost of everyone’s education, especially those who go on to become successful outside of public service, and pocket all their high earnings without putting anything back into society. In addition, as my daughter trained in London, the total cost to ourselves, her parents, with fees (much lower than now) accommodation, tube travel, living expenses, books and all associated costs, we estimated that it cost us around £10,000 a year to put our daughter through university for the six years it took for her to graduate, and she then went on to train for an additional six years, but was engaged as a junior doctor then and earned a salary.

There is far too much moaning and complaining about GPs on Gransnet, mostly from people who have no idea of what is involved in the job or what GPs do.

It’s time to give it a rest.

maddyone Wed 19-Aug-20 15:27:00

How rude to ask if the tax payers are getting good value! Why does anyone assume they have the right to question if they’re getting good value from our hard working doctors? I hope no one who is complaining was out clapping for NHS workers during the Covid19 crisis. And before anyone says GPs didn’t treat Covid patients, yes they did. Who do you think gave the palliative care to patients in care homes?

Gwyneth Wed 19-Aug-20 15:43:53

Actually we don’t have to get used to the fact ‘female GPs’ work part time as you state. Sadly, it’s commonplace and patient care is generally the worse for it. I don’t want to say any more as we obviously have vastly different opinions and experiences. However, as to your final comment re too many moaners and complaints regarding GPs this is probably because posters’ experiences reflect this fact as mine certainly do.

Sparkling Wed 19-Aug-20 15:46:32

I hope I go before my body lets me down.

tattygran14 Wed 19-Aug-20 16:38:51

Of course we have the right to question. We are paying their wages.

chimes22 Wed 19-Aug-20 16:42:39

I agree completely people in general will realise too late

4allweknow Wed 19-Aug-20 16:55:08

Think the post mentioning GPs working part time may have wanted to highlight that the cost of training for a GP is the same for one who then goes on to work full or part time. 36 hours a week? I worked well over 48 hours with contract for 36 hours, no overtime, and that was me a "lowly, lazy, final salary pension" Local Authority manager.
The NHS has been abused for far too long. The slightest graze, cut or bump and kids are in A & E. Adults are just not prepared to wait on their body healing with minor injuries, it's got to be fixed NOW and turn up at A & E for something common sense would fix. I despair at times when I watch some emergency dept programmes and see what some folk regard as an accident or emergency. Perhaps the phoning ahead system will help reduce the time wasters and save the NHS some money.

allium Wed 19-Aug-20 16:59:13

Would the French system work here?

songstress60 Wed 19-Aug-20 17:22:51

My cataract op was cancelled. I am with Benenden, so I thought I'd ask them to push me to the top of the list with it being private. Guess what! They have the same waiting lists as NHS. I am not being seen by the Opthamologist till April 2021. You are written off if you are over 55!

Dinahmo Wed 19-Aug-20 17:38:55

One area that should be investigated is the private companies that run the carers who look after people in their own homes.

My BIL had Parkinsons and a carer came in morning and evening to get him up and put him to bed, 5 days a week. This carer had a rota - same people every day. The carer received a mileage allowance from which the company used to deduct VAT and they also used to deduct a further amount because"everyone fiddles their mileage"

(a) the company had no right to deduct VAT
(b) it is not beyond the skills of most clerical staff to work out the mileage that the carer did in a day and to pay him correctly. Given that he saw the same people every day the sums wouldn't have to be computed that often.

Paperbackwriter Wed 19-Aug-20 17:56:57

A 93 year old lady I know had open heart surgery for aortic valve replacement about 3 weeks ago. Couldn't have had better care. And yes, NHS.

maddyone Wed 19-Aug-20 18:06:23

I wonder why I’m not surprised by the total lack of respect for doctors that I see on here. My daughter and her husband have both told me of the me, me, me attitude that patients display today.
As for ‘we pay their wages’ what an arrogant comment. Actually we pay the wages of everyone who has a job, through our taxes, our council tax, our road taxes, and by buying anything. Who pays the wages of the shop assistant who serves you? You do of course, when you buy something.

Paying their wages, indirectly I might add, does not give you free reign to think you call the shots, you don’t. But I do know there’s a lot of resentment shown towards doctors these days, gone are the days when they were treated with respect. I truly hope that everyone of you who are pointing out the faults of doctors didn’t stand outside and clap for our NHS. If you did, you’re a hypocrite.

maddyone Wed 19-Aug-20 18:26:58

....most women do not have the choice of working part-time because they would not earn enough.

Obviously the thinking is that doctors don’t deserve their pay. How much is twelve years training is worth? If anyone deigns to suggest a suitable amount I’d be interested to know what it would be.

If a person wants to earn as much as a doctor, they should train as a doctor.

maddyone Wed 19-Aug-20 18:28:23

Nobody is written off if they’re over 55. Following the Covid19 crisis, there is a backlog. Not really surprising.

HAZBEEN Wed 19-Aug-20 18:31:02

I am not having a go at doctors or more specifically GPs but the system that seems to be becoming the norm. Trying to book an appointment is a nightmare for some people as in my surgery where you cant even speak to a GP most of the time but may be granted a call from a nurse or other "health worker". As I stated in an earlier post I was even diagnosed with blood cancer without having a face to face appointment and was told the news in a rushed phone call which left me very shocked and worried. I think I do have the right to question why.

maddyone Wed 19-Aug-20 18:33:10

My daughter works 36 hours a week in THREE days. Quite a lot I think. The resentment on here about doctors is truly astounding. Every single one of you will need a doctor, or has needed a doctor in the past. I hope people tell them how much they resent them. Not on here, say it to the doctor’s face.

maddyone Wed 19-Aug-20 18:34:25

That is very sad, but I think you’ll find Covid19 was the reason.

maddyone Wed 19-Aug-20 18:38:27

You are right. There are a HUGE number of time wasters using the NHS inappropriately. My daughter has told me of patients demanding sun cream on the NHS and also nit lotion. These are things that can be bought over the counter, and the NHS absolutely should not be wasting money on these types of items.

HAZBEEN Wed 19-Aug-20 18:40:06

Yes Maddy Covid is the reason for the telephone appointments with the consultant but NOT the reason for phone calls from anyone but a GP, that system was already starting before covid hit as many on here have stated.
I find the lack of compassion and care for people in their later years and suffering from life changing illnesses very worrying. I know you will say your daughter is very caring but even you have to admit there are some who arent. All professions have good and bad and we can only comment on our own experiences.

maddyone Wed 19-Aug-20 18:59:11

I agree HAZBEEN absolutely I agree. But I have noticed a disturbing trend on Gransnet over a few threads that really show almost dislike, certainly disrespect of doctors, particularly GPs. And far too many comments along the lines of ‘we pay their wages’ which I find to be particularly arrogant. It is not for us to decide how much doctors are paid, it is up to government. And let us not forget that GPs are self employed, they are absolutely not public employees, in the way NHS hospital doctors are.

I hope you get the appropriate treatment and recover fully HAZBEEN. flowers

larry5 Wed 19-Aug-20 19:04:11

I had to contact my GP this morning. You are asked what the basic problem is by the receptionist and then a GP rings back to go into detail. I rang the surgery at 9 had a call back at 11 30 and saw the GP at 12 45. I wouldn’t have got any better attention before Covid so I was very pleased with my treatment.