A group has been created with the aim of removing the government

Galaxy please point me in the direction of those examples of solutions to discrimination and bigotry outside of the use of legislation in this thread or any thread. Just copy and paste if it is easier.

I still wait with bated breath for those ultimate solutions???????????

For example as ridiculous as it may seem eastenders and brookside did more to move forward the issue of gay rights in terms of public attitudes than individuals use of the equality act.

Galaxy

We have given you example after example grandad, you are just not listening.

That's why my participation would be a waste of my time.

We have given you example after example grandad, you are just not listening.

varian

We all know that the Labour Party has been bankrolled by the unions and the Tory party has been bankrolled by big business and corrupt billionaires.

Would it not be better to have our political parties funded in a different way?

The Labour Party is part of the Broader Labour Movement and therefore funded in reality from within the movement to which it is a part of

Also in regard to funding the British people will never agree to taxation for the funding of political parties.

Just more pie in the sky by dreamers in the Lib Dems.

growstuff

Legislation has never changed poor attitudes. It's the other way round. Legislation is the result of changes brought about societal pressures.

I believe you are deluded, if you think that legislation can ever be adequate to combat discrimination (or any other injustice for that matter). History has told us time and time again that it isn't. What it does is give a convenient excuse to those who don't want change and are prepared to turn a blind eye.

growstuff I have already asked you in this thread and I will ask others if you have a solution to combatting discrimination and bigotry in all its forms other than through legislation then please place that solution into this thread so we can all be advised and judge upon it.??????????

I wait with bated breath for such an ultimate solution. ?

PS. I should have added that's the way things happen in a democracy. Autocracies, of course, will attempt to bring about change by imposing legislation.

Legislation has never changed poor attitudes. It's the other way round. Legislation is the result of changes brought about societal pressures.

I believe you are deluded, if you think that legislation can ever be adequate to combat discrimination (or any other injustice for that matter). History has told us time and time again that it isn't. What it does is give a convenient excuse to those who don't want change and are prepared to turn a blind eye.

We all know that the Labour Party has been bankrolled by the unions and the Tory party has been bankrolled by big business and corrupt billionaires.

Would it not be better to have our political parties funded in a different way?

Galaxy

Grandad, as has been described over and over again, legislation alone does not change the situation for oppressed groups, it didn't for wonen, it didn't for gay people tec etc. It is much more complex than that.

Galaxy, only legislation in our society can change poor attitudes and actions for there is no other way.

I believe that the United Kingdom already has comprehensive legislation in existence to combat discrimination in all its forms. The challenge is to get sufficient numbers of people affected by discrimination and bigotry to use that legislation to redress those affects.

varian

I don't think that I would be the first GNetter to point out to you Grandad that you cannot possibly speak for 6 million people.

I have every respect for the trades union movement. Trades unions do a lot of good. However union members do not all think like you. I suspect that you do know that.

varian, if you read my posts @18:50 thoroughly you will witness that I did not state in that post that I speak on behalf of six million trade union members for I would never be that arrogant.

I did state however that" my membership is in the company of a further six million plus trade union members in Great Britain" which is a very different statement.

Also varian in regard to your post @18:50 you advised that "Polly Toynbee has identified this element within the Labour movement which has held it back".

Certainly, I have to agree if those trade union members did not and had not existed in the Labour movement for over one hundred years the Labour Party would not have been held back because it never could have existed if not for those trade union members paying the political levy as part of their subscription to those unions.

The same still applies today and those that do not recognise that fact are the people out of touch in their political perspective.

Thank you Galaxy I don't like to give up hope that folk can, just occasionally, stop and think.

Varian I do admire your patience and persistence.

I don't think that I would be the first GNetter to point out to you Grandad that you cannot possibly speak for 6 million people.

I have every respect for the trades union movement. Trades unions do a lot of good. However union members do not all think like you. I suspect that you do know that.

varian

Grandad I have to tell you that I do not have an obsession with your experiences in the Labour movement.

I merely note that your attitudes and opinions remind me of the time I was an LP supporter in the 1960s. You do not seem to have moved on one bit. Polly Toynbee has identified this element within the Labour movement which has held it back.

As for the Liberal Democrats - watch this space.

varian, if I have not moved on in regard to the trade unions and the broader labour movement I am in the company of a further six million plus trade union members in Great Britain. Those members hold allegiance to those trade unions ambitions for better working conditions and greater equality for working people and their families in the United Kingdom.

Your arrogance in placing yourself as better in views and attitude to those six million people varian is beyond belief.

Grandad I have to tell you that I do not have an obsession with your experiences in the Labour movement.

I merely note that your attitudes and opinions remind me of the time I was an LP supporter in the 1960s. You do not seem to have moved on one bit. Polly Toynbee has identified this element within the Labour movement which has held it back.

As for the Liberal Democrats - watch this space.

Apologies should be "varian" in my above post.

varian

You do come across as deeply conservative (small c) Grandad

I guess we are probably about the same age but I have managed to change my views on many things since the turn of the millenium. You still seem to be anchored in the mid-twentieth century.

I respect your strong convictions about the Labour movement, in particular the Trade Unions etc, but could you tell us if you have ever changed your mind aboiut anything in the last fifty years?

variant, your above post is the second time in recent days you have commented in regard to my views on the Labour movement and the trade unions.

I replied to your comment and enquiry on the first occasion but unless you can demonstrate how my personal views and fifty year plus experiences within the broad Labour movement in Great Britain has any reflection on a group trying to bring down the government of the United Kingdom ( that being the topic of this thread) I will not expand further.

Could it be that your obsession with my experiences in the Labour movement is due to the fact that nothing of any interest ever happens in the party of which you are a member, that being the Liberal Democrats? ???

Grandad, as has been described over and over again, legislation alone does not change the situation for oppressed groups, it didn't for wonen, it didn't for gay people tec etc. It is much more complex than that.

I dont even think it's an opinion really, it's a description of the equality act that's not an opinion.

You do come across as deeply conservative (small c) Grandad

I guess we are probably about the same age but I have managed to change my views on many things since the turn of the millenium. You still seem to be anchored in the mid-twentieth century.

I respect your strong convictions about the Labour movement, in particular the Trade Unions etc, but could you tell us if you have ever changed your mind aboiut anything in the last fifty years?

growstuff

You have just repeated what you wrote earlier.

Unfortunately, you just do not seem to have any idea about the issues, so there's no point responding to your posts.

What I post is a true perception of the situation growstuff. What would you then put forward as a solution to discrimination?

Pulling down yet more statues which seemed to alienate many Bristol citizens to the Black lives matter objectives (whatever those objectives beyond anarchy are).

You have just repeated what you wrote earlier.

Unfortunately, you just do not seem to have any idea about the issues, so there's no point responding to your posts.

Elegran

What evidence, Grandad ? "seek out any evidence of dicrimination where such evedence exists." There won't any evidence that a flat - or every flat in an area - has been let deliberately to someone who isn't of the group being discriminated against. Do you charge every flat-owner with racial discrimination?

Legislation sorts out some things, but it doesn't change psychological attitudes. If it did, there would never be any more crime of any sort!

Elegran, in regard to your post @09:46 today, no statute can legislate against what any person may think or believe. By example, Should any individual believe that a black person whatever their skills or character is always a lesser person than someone who is white, then no legislation can prevent such thoughts however abhorrent such beliefs may be to the great majority in our society?

However, when such an individual practices such beliefs in society in the form of discrimination against others, then the comprehensive legislation we have enabled in Great Britain can be brought against such a person.

By example, should a person feel they have been unfairly discriminated against in the application to rent housing accommodation, then those responsible for the implementation of the Equality act can instruct the owner of the accommodation or their agents to declare to them all documentation in regard to the accommodation rental including all references etc received from all who applied to rent the accommodation.

Should an employee feel they have been discriminated against in terms of training in their workplace then again on receipt of such a complaint those responsible for the implementation of the Equality Act or those authorities responsible for safety in a workplace can carry out an investigation into the foregoing.

Acts of discrimination and bigotry nearly always leave a trail or pattern which can be uncovered. However, as I stated in my earlier post, it is often that those subject to such bigotry and discrimination do not take up the comprehensive finance free legislative procedures that are available to them.

And through that discrimination and bigotry continues to be practised by those not called to account.

And WHO would you put in its place, Grany?