A group has been created with the aim of removing the government

I agree growstuff but this thread is about getting rid of the government.

I agree that it should be accountable with a strong opposition to challenge them but it’s pointless discussing ways to turf them out, unless of course there are exceptional circumstances.

Sigh. And the current campaign with regard to prosecutions for rape, it's just a constant fight, I actually think placing all responsibility on those groups further enables discrimination.

And the current campaign with regards to the C

I do admire Grandad1943's faith in the legal system. I might have myself believed it until a few years ago when I met the woman who started "PregnantthenScrewed" after she had lost her job when dealing with a difficult pregnancy. The stories she told about how organisations are dismissing women in spite of the legislation made me realise the battle is never won. It is a constantly changing situation where agitators and organisors are needed to keep one step ahead of those (be they businesses or governments) whose priorities are never people or their welfare.

JenniferEccles

This thread has run to 10 pages yet the simple fact is, as Joneskpj000 has said, that we change the government by means of a general election.

In just over four years time there will be another.

Until then whether you like it or not, we have a Conservative government.

Criticise them yes. Wail about the perceived horrors of leaving the EU (if you must!) yes, but it’s futile for any group to attempt to change any democratically arrived at decision isn’t it?

We might have a Conservative government for the next four years, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be accountable nor that it can't be influenced. That's how democracy in the UK works.

BTW Grandad Did you mean the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC)?

What evidence, Grandad ? "seek out any evidence of dicrimination where such evedence exists." There won't any evidence that a flat - or every flat in an area - has been let deliberately to someone who isn't of the group being discriminated against. Do you charge every flat-owner with racial discrimination?

Legislation sorts out some things, but it doesn't change psychological attitudes. If it did, there would never be any more crime of any sort!

This thread has run to 10 pages yet the simple fact is, as Joneskpj000 has said, that we change the government by means of a general election.

In just over four years time there will be another.

Until then whether you like it or not, we have a Conservative government.

Criticise them yes. Wail about the perceived horrors of leaving the EU (if you must!) yes, but it’s futile for any group to attempt to change any democratically arrived at decision isn’t it?

If we relied on legislation then rape in marriage would still be legal, women campaigned over a long period of time to change the law, legislation is frequently flawed.

Oops just what ??

Just

Galaxy

I feel like its groundhog day again. Change for oppressed groups very rarely comes from legislation alone, it comes from a cultural shift. For example the progress that has been made in terms of gay rights has not only been because of legislation in fact that was only a small part of it. Peoples attitudes towards gay rights didnt change because gay people used the equality act to tackle individual acts of discrimination (although of course people will have used the legislation in this way) it was caused by a cultural shift which was caused by campaigning, protesting, visibility, etc etc. Thinking legislation alone tackles discrimination is very naive.

Exactly! Legislation is almost always a reaction to campaigning and protesting, etc.

JonesKpj000

It's called a General Election in this country. We live in a democracy whether we like what the current government are doing or not!

There's more to a democracy than elections, like it or not.

Grandad1943

MaizieD

Blimey, Grandad. You've comprehensively failed to answer Eloethan's question.

Which was: ^How does a person use the equality laws to fight racial, sexual or any other type of discrimination if that person is not aware, or has no proof, that they have been discriminated against?^

Then MaizieD you apply to the Bodies as I laid out in my above post for them to seek out any evidence of dicrimination where such evedence exists.

And if the evidence can't be found that easily?

Have you ever used the Equality Act?

MaizieD

Blimey, Grandad. You've comprehensively failed to answer Eloethan's question.

Which was: ^How does a person use the equality laws to fight racial, sexual or any other type of discrimination if that person is not aware, or has no proof, that they have been discriminated against?^

Maybe that was just the introduction and he'll get round to answering the question later.

It's called a General Election in this country. We live in a democracy whether we like what the current government are doing or not!

I feel like its groundhog day again. Change for oppressed groups very rarely comes from legislation alone, it comes from a cultural shift. For example the progress that has been made in terms of gay rights has not only been because of legislation in fact that was only a small part of it. Peoples attitudes towards gay rights didnt change because gay people used the equality act to tackle individual acts of discrimination (although of course people will have used the legislation in this way) it was caused by a cultural shift which was caused by campaigning, protesting, visibility, etc etc. Thinking legislation alone tackles discrimination is very naive.

MaizieD

Blimey, Grandad. You've comprehensively failed to answer Eloethan's question.

Which was: ^How does a person use the equality laws to fight racial, sexual or any other type of discrimination if that person is not aware, or has no proof, that they have been discriminated against?^

Then MaizieD you apply to the Bodies as I laid out in my above post for them to seek out any evidence of dicrimination where such evedence exists.

Blimey, Grandad. You've comprehensively failed to answer Eloethan's question.

Which was: How does a person use the equality laws to fight racial, sexual or any other type of discrimination if that person is not aware, or has no proof, that they have been discriminated against?

Eloethan, in regard to your post @00:36 yesterday, there are a number of legislative acts that deal with discrimination in our society.

First among them is the Equality Act 2010. That act legally protects people from discrimination in the workplace and in wider society. It encompassed previous anti-discrimination laws within a single Act, making the law easier to understand and strengthening protection in many situations. It sets out clearly the different ways in which it is unlawful to treat someone.

The Equality Act is overseen in its application by the Race & Equalities Commission, and in that anyone who feels they have reasonable grounds for a belief that they have been discriminated against on the bases of Gender, Race, Sexual orientation, religious belief or disability can apply to the above body for the matter to be investigated.

Other legislative acts also cover discrimination in all its forms. The Health & Safety at Work Act 1974 (amended 2011) also covers discrimination in the workplace and in areas affected by the operations of any place of work. I have been involved personally in many investigations which have involved discrimination in employment where safety has also become involved.

The Employment Rights Act 1996 also covers acts of discrimination in the workplace along with much else.

The above legislative acts are often brought together. By example, should discrimination in employment prevent a person obtaining promotion in their job role, then investigators from the Race & Equalities Commission will at first investigate that under the Employment Rights Act and then under the Equality Act if it is felt that act of discrimination prevented a person from obtaining a mortgage or other loan etc

It is not unusual for investigators from the Race & Equalities Commission to work jointly with those from the Health & Safety Executive (or their appointed representatives) in matters involving discrimination both in and outside of the workplace.

Therefore Eloethan I hope you can see how comprehensive legislation covers all discrimination wherever it is found within the United Kingdom. The problem often is people subject to such acts of discrimination do not use the above legislation and the free of cost Bodies that oversee the implementation of the above acts.

Granddad1943 How does a person use the equality laws to fight racial, sexual or any other type of discrimination if that person is not aware, or has no proof, that they have been discriminated against?

If, for instance, a black person is told that the flat they wished to rent has already been taken, how is that person to establish that it has not? The only way is for a properly constructed and systematic under-cover investigation - as has been done and which has found that certain letting agents were, on the instructions of their clients, saying to black potential renters that a flat was no longer available.

Likewise, how could a candidate for a job who has sent in his/her cv know that his/her application, although superior to others, has been discarded because he/she had a non-European sounding surname?

Of course, there are laws to try and prevent discriminatory practices but discrimination is often hard to prove without proper analysis of procedures and outcomes, and under cover investigations being carried out.

So please don't trot out the idea that discrimination in this country is not a serious issue because we have a legal process through which everyone who has been the subject of discriminatory practices can receive justice.

You appear to be a great proponent of the trades union movement, which I agree is generally a force for good in society and seeks to protect people's employment rights. However, it seems you are less keen on accepting that there are some people who are, based on hard evidence, routinely discriminated against within the workplace and, as a committed trade unionist, I would have thought you would accept that and that it would be of some concern to you.

varian you know as well as I do that there is only one way to replace the present government, and that’s at the ballot box in four years time.
Not that we would have a Lib Dem government then, but there’s the possibility of power sharing if the LP didn’t quite have the numbers and the Conservatives do badly.That’s the best you can hope for.

It isn’t....but it amused me to post it.?

If this is the best you can do, I rest my case.

Which poster said ‘we won, haha’?
What about the low standard of debate from Lib Dem supporters .....who have only one refrain (played endlessly) along the lines of
It isn’t fair!
It’s undemocratic!
Brexit is horrible!
Sham this, sham that!