Get back to the office! But why?

BBC news today:

Outsourcing firm Capita is to close over a third of its offices in the UK permanently, the BBC understands. The firm, which is a major government contractor, is to end its leases on almost 100 workplaces.

Business lobby group CBI has warned that the fall in office working is damaging city centre economies. It comes as the government prepares to launch an advertising campaign encouraging more people to return to workplaces.

The BBC understands that Capita, which manages London's congestion charge, has been looking at various measures to help it simplify its business for some time, such as embracing more flexible working, which is supported by its employees.

So far, Capita has decided not to renew leases on 25 offices.

As per my post on 28/8; the repercussions will affect far more than the corner sandwich shop and coffee bar. Unless, and until empty office blocks are repurposed, this will mean no Business Rate taxes being paid and so City and Borough councils will have a much reduced revenue which, in turn, will affect every resident in the area.

I agree about The City and Canary Wharf Riverwalk. Those big companies have enough money behind them to get this right for their employees. As Furret says, they are good at tackling such issues and it is also very much in their own interests to strike a successful balance.
I know some people on here don't like examples of everyday folk, but all our family are in employment thanks to people who work on that patch. The latter are the ones with money admittedly, but they are astute enough to make that money work for them. The number of people building garden offices is soaring, as well as home gyms for exercise. 35k is the average cost, our daughter had one constructed. Also city workers are buying up houses to convert 10 miles or so out, but keeping their flats in town to let out. Ironically there is still no shortage of tenants willing to spend £2k per month on rent.
I have come round to believing things will move forward quickly in the profitable sectors. The pandemic has just hastened that which was going to happen anyway.

Big employers in The City, Canary Wharf etc will do whatever is in their financial interests. Over the past months listening to the business interviews on the Today programme they all claim it has been working well and productivity has remained or improved.

From recent interviews it seems many are planning to have mixture of home/office working, which seems the most sensible.

I think it wrong for the government to be pushing for immediate return - we should first see how infection numbers go with the return of schools & universities.

How four companies optimised remote working

This is a really short and interesting article and tackles many of the issues raised on this forum. How good bosses work it,

It sounds ridiculously far fetched, but I've read reports of these kinds of conditions in a certain very well know warehouse.

Paid time can then be deducted for when the employee is using the toilets etc and that time has to be made up at the end of the shift.

Is that legal?
Good grief, so glad I never worked for an employer like that!

The right to access a toilet is a basic human need. Unless both the employee and employer agree to compensate the employee on rest breaks an employer cannot take away the worker's right to access a toilet room while working.
The law is not clear in New Zealand, United Kingdom, or the United States of America as to the amount of time a worker is entitled to use a toilet while working. Nor is there clarification on what constitutes a 'reasonable' amount of access to a toilet.[2] Consequently, the lack of access to toilet facilities has become a health issue for many workers.[3] Issues around workplace allowance to use a toilet has given light on issues such as workers having to ask permission to use a toilet and some workers having their pay deducted for the mere human right of using a toilet when they need to

How Dickensian.

MaizieD in regard to your post @18:51 today, when our company is engaged to carry out safety investigations, audits or training within these distribution centres I am at times personally appalled at the working conditions and procedures that the employers inpose on their staff.

However, we are always called in at the behest of the employer, an insurance company or at times by the HSE which is always following a safety incident.

In that capacity is not for me or any of our staff to state their opinion of the working conditions or procedures unless those terms of employment contributed to the safety incident under investigation.

In that way, we safeguard the future of our company and the security of employment of our employees.

There is also the fact if people wish to tolerate such conditions without organising to oppose, then that is the choice of those employees.

I do recall being one distribution centre where the order pickers were instructed to wear Tracker Belts as they moved around the centre in the course of their work. Within the centre managers office there was a huge screen on the wall with green marker lights showing continuously the position of each picker in the warehouse.

If any picker was in the same position for three minutes the marker.light would turn amber. On four minutes the marker light would turn red and the internal CCTV cameras in that section of the centre would turn to concentrate on the worker. The video from those cameras would then be transmitted to the operations and site managers offices.

That centre manager described to me while I was there how the system worked and how proud he had been when his site had been chosen to be one of the first to have such equipment installed.

That was an occasion when I really had to bite my tongue in the course of my work.

Those trackers are able to show on screens in the operations office where an employee is at any moment while in the warehouse and how long they have been in that same place etc. Paid time can then be deducted for when the employee is using the toilets etc and that time has to be made up at the end of the shift.

As a strong union person, do you endorse practices like this, Grandad?

When I read about Grandad's dangers of working at home, I really think that teachers should be paid danger money!

LauraNorder

Grandad says Paid time can then be deducted for when the employee is using the toilets etc and that time has to be made up at the end of the shift
Wow Grandad is that true? How draconian.

Lots of issues raised on this thread re working from home or in town hubs, lots of pros and cons but nothing that can't be overcome. Fascinating discussion.

I believe that it is true.

We have a neighbour who used to work for BT - repairs and installations. He would be sent a schedule each morning of that day's appointments. Time was allocated to each job but didn't take into account the circumstances. So for example, there could be a call out to an elderly person where the access of the cables to the house was overgrown and time would be needed to clear the area. They were also told when to take their lunch. In other words, his working day was controlled by a faceless person in an office.

Grandad says Paid time can then be deducted for when the employee is using the toilets etc and that time has to be made up at the end of the shift
Wow Grandad is that true? How draconian.

Lots of issues raised on this thread re working from home or in town hubs, lots of pros and cons but nothing that can't be overcome. Fascinating discussion.

My AC has been working from home for years and wouldn’t change now. My other AC is now to work from home when furlough finishes and is happy to do so. This will be the new normal and the Health and Safety at Work Act will have to change to cover this as Elegran says.

Dinahmo, in regard to your post @14:55 today, the modern equivalent of signing in or out are "tracker belts" which employees in distribution centres etc place around. their waists when they commence work.

Those trackers are able to show on screens in the operations office where an employee is at any moment while in the warehouse and how long they have been in that same place etc. Paid time can then be deducted for when the employee is using the toilets etc and that time has to be made up at the end of the shift.

Such are the "advantages" of modern working methods.

I have also pointed out in this thread the vulnerabilities of persons working from home. How forum members perceive that is down to them.

I think Grandad mentioned that jobs will be sent abroad but that can work both ways.
My son works from home for companies abroad as he has the special skills that they lack.
Many people who work from home have skills that can't always be replicated if the work is sent abroad.
I apologise to Grandad if it wasn't him who mentioned this.

The legal position of home workers will doubtless be the subject of a lot of discussion soon. As/when/if home working become more common, parallel legislation to the Health & Safety at Work Act will probably be formulated and passed (a Health & Safety of Those Working at Home Act ? )

Doodledog

Grandad, are you able to see any advantages (to the employee or the employer) of having people working from home, or are you determined to come up with hypothetical circumstances where it may be problematic?

Risk assessments may be necessary, but as working from home becomes more usual these will become more commonplace and easier to carry out.

I don't think he can. Many people have talked about the cost of commuting and the number of hours spent on travel each week but that has been ignored. He has also ignored the benefits to the individual and their families.

Nobody has suggested that all office workers should always work from home but there are many that can. Methods of employment change all the time. Thank goodness the days of having to sign in in front of the office manager (under exam conditions as mentioned above). There was no signing out when one left so there was no record of time being made up if one arrived late for work in the morning.

I can fully understand why people don't want to go back to their offices.

My main problem is the difficulty I have getting through to places on the phone.

I've given up trying to contact NS&I. I did get through eventually to Santander and spoke to a very nice lady. Her dog barking loudly in the background was a little bit unprofessional though. This maybe ok for now but surely not good long term.

What about the risk of them being injured in the car on the way to the office.
Most of the companies I know provide advice, and assessment on correct seating within the home.
The IT equipment is provided and PAT tested.

Grandad, are you able to see any advantages (to the employee or the employer) of having people working from home, or are you determined to come up with hypothetical circumstances where it may be problematic?

Risk assessments may be necessary, but as working from home becomes more usual these will become more commonplace and easier to carry out.

The problem with those working from home is where legislation actually stands in that environment.

With a sited workplace it is covered comprehensively under such acts as the Health & Safety at Work Act, the Employment rights act etc. However, while a person is working at home there are many instances coming to light where the above acts have questionable authority.

By example, a worker sets up an office in a spare bedroom at home. In that, is the electrical equipment he/she installs in that environment subject to safety regulations and audit as it would be in a sited workplace.

Further, the employee has a serious fall coming down from that office while carrying a file due to a loose stair fitting. Is the employer liable as they would be in a sited workplace or is this classed as just a domestic accident?

The above examples give cause to believe that employees working from home may be subject to far less in the way of protection and also subject to serious exploitation in terms of employment conditions and hours worked etc.

Already there are test cases in the pipeline to come before the courts, but with the backlog of lawsuits in the judiciary system, no one is aware of when those hearings will begin to be heard.

Same here Callistemon never enough hours in the day.

Future use of home working will be done with more forward planning, and more support systems will have been worked out.
Yes, this was a crisis period and arrangements were made hastily, without forward planning in most instances.

Fast forward to the public sector full time role where there wasn’t enough work to fill the day
It is not true of most public sector jobs.
I started back to work part-time when youngest DC started school and many a time I had to stay later just to get the work done (there were often very important deadlines).

At least I got time off in lieu which came in useful.

Grandad your anecdote is not a good argument against home working but for having it better organised than it was during an emergency lockdown when children and parents were restricted to their homes and absolutely no childcare was available.

I don't like the assumption that people are basically lazy. Some may be, but many aren't. I think that working from home is ideal for those with the right home environment.

Of course, it won't suit those who long to escape to a quiet, organised place in order to concentrate.

My daughter has to pretend to go out (small children) move the car around the corner, then creep back to her office part of the garage.

Grandad is quite right in that new jobs will replace those lost. The pandemic has merely accelerated changes that were in the pipeline anyway. The reduction in commuting is welcome in environmental terms.