Get back to the office! But why?

Grandad I should not have assumed that it was a woman - that was probably because it is still the case that it is women who mostly manage childcare. Perhaps the man was less adept at sorting out their needs than his partner would have been?

I suspect it would be mostly women who would take up the chance to work from home. Further, I suspect that childcare will still be done by a lot of them, in between doing their job. It is up to employers to be aware of this and set up support systems - for men too, and for men to consider the care of their children when taking up work at home.

How many people spend a good part of their day posting on forums when they are at work?

My point way up thread was that presenteeism has never been a driver of good productivity, and even if we went back to Victorian models of open plan offices with the boss sitting in front watching staff work in ‘exam conditions’ it never will.

FarNorth

Some office jobs probably didn't take up a person's full time hours and they could slack off chatting or playing with their phone but nobody minded because they were 'at work'.

You never wrote a truer word FarNorth!

My first part time private sector clerical job after DD started school was 20 hours and I found I could do the work in 15 so went to my boss and asked for more jobs to fill my time or a cut in hours/pay. He was pleased at my initiative and increased the hourly rate slightly and gave me the choice of which morning I wanted off!

Fast forward to the public sector full time role where there wasn’t enough work to fill the day - I suggested the same solution and I was told by my manager to ‘keep quiet and look busy’! I lasted a month......?

Elegran in regard to your post @10:29 today, I believe if you look back in this thread to my references to the safety incident at the distribution centre you will see that I have not stated that the person working from home whose non-action became the root cause of the incident was a woman.

It was indeed a man who was working from home while his partner was working longer hours than normal in her retail food employment role.

Talk of automatically diverted calls does remind me that there are some things that are probably not available when people are working from home. One of them is a receptionist with a switchboard set up to do sophisticated things with calls.

As for the delays because of those pyramids of choices that drive us round the bend when we try to phone organisations with a lot of departments, and the prospect of sitting for ages with muzak in your ear, interrupted at intervals by "Trying to connect you" and "Your call is important to us" and eulogies about how devoted to serving us they are, that has been a feature of trying to contact companies long before CoVid .

People will make individual decisions on what work they want to do, what is available and what they need to do to pay the rent and put food on the table - as it has always been. Some of that may be in person in a workplace with others, some may be done at home. A responsible company/employer will set up an out-of-office job as carefully as they will a factory or warehouse, and I imagine that regulations and guidelines will appear, if they are not already in existence.

The safety incident Grandad tells of wasn't caused because someone was working from home, but because her work at home wasn't supported by a framework that took into account that someone should be available at all time, and that she had young children which could possibly prove difficult. She could have been paired with someone else to whom calls were automatically diverted when she couldn't deal with them (and sent to her if her colleague needed to do so) or it could have been ensured that provision was made for the children.

The last few months have seen hurried plans made for keeping up communications and service, and the closure of schools and nurseries has meant many households have had childcare to add to their responsibilities. Future use of home working will be done with more forward planning, and more support systems will have been worked out.

There isn't anything I disagree with in your post Grandad, and am guilty of ordering from The Great Satan during the lockdown where previously I would have been shopping in the high street.

I spoke to my son yesterday, and he told me that "they" have had the cheek to furlough staff whilst taking government money, don't know how true that is, I guess you would know. He would also like to get back to the office, albeit in a limited way, but his company aren't encouraging that.

It's all a nightmare for the working world with possibly more lockdowns to come, France and Spain are seeing spikes at the moment.

What this pandemic has also shown us, although I imagine it was common knowledge in certain areas, how sweatshop conditions prevail in some manufacturing and there are those getting richer by the day, whilst simultaneously paying their workforce well under the minimum wage and so that continues it would seem

Some office jobs probably didn't take up a person's full time hours and they could slack off chatting or playing with their phone but nobody minded because they were 'at work'.

The Covid crisis has changed the way we organise our lives and much of that we may not wish to reverse even if life is capable of returning to pre-crisis rankings

In that, very many now shop online and that has greatly increased employment in what is a labour intensive industry but not for office typed employment. When anyone orders online for home delivery then what has been the traditional "paperwork" side of the order is completed by the customers themselves in association with the IT system of the online supplier.

However, then the movement of the goods to the distribution centre, the picking and packing of the order(s) along with the loading of the vehicles and the delivery of the order to the home address is labour intensive. You also have the suppliers to the foregoing operation in regard to vehicle servicing, employee training, equipment supply and servicing along with much else.

The above will be a growing large employment offset to the loss of employment in traditional retail outlets and there associated offices and suppliers.

The employment on offer from those online suppliers is often shift work inclusive of weekend and bank holiday working, heavy manual handling and jobs that mean working all hours outside in all weathers summer and winter. Often they are highly skilled jobs but that is with an employees hands rather than all the skill being required in the head and with that work actually having to be carried out within a sited workplace.

That is the future I believe but one where people have to closely collaborate and interact with others in their employment, and one which involves commuting and socialising with others, which is no bad thing in my opinion.

However, will those who feel they wish to have the comfort of an office environment either at home or at a sited workplace change their stance and working life outlook and take up that employment that is already becoming to be on regular offer??????

Yes and it's a terrible tactic as has been proved with the demise of the town centre. Despite numerous schemes and exhortations to save the high street, people continued to use online shopping and out of town retail parks. Telling people they have to do something to support a particular part of the economy just doesnt work.

PS. I should have said I haven't seen Central London, but I have been to local shops and the market (we don't have a shopping centre).

MawB2

growstuff

Boarded up shops were a feature of many high streets before the pandemic and need long-term strategic thinking, not threatening people with job losses for not returning to office working. Wasn't it an election promise to "level up" and breathe life back into some if these places?

Have you seen Central London recently? Have you been in your local shopping centre?
Things are far, far worse than before.

No, I haven't, but I've seen pictures and I believe what it's like, but I don't think it's the moral duty of commuters to bring them back to life.

However, I have ventured into my own small market town and it's heaving.

Most local authorities are making completely different plans for town centres, I am not talking about London that is a separate situation, those changes may have been accelerated but they were coming anyway.

Galaxy

Does that count on both sides maw b because what I can see is mostly people telling cliched anecdotes about home workers jogging and skiving. I do wonder too if it is the age range on the board, most of the young people I know are used to some element of home working. It is important to think of the nuances on both sides, the benefits on mental health, the impact on the environment, the impact on those who have caring responsibilities, the impact for women in the workplace.

As a former teacher, I was used to working at home for as many hours as I worked in the classroom, as I expect most teachers are. If teachers don't do the work which needs doing, it won't be long before they are found out. There are advantages in terms of flexibility, but you do have to have self-discipline and organisation.

growstuff

Boarded up shops were a feature of many high streets before the pandemic and need long-term strategic thinking, not threatening people with job losses for not returning to office working. Wasn't it an election promise to "level up" and breathe life back into some if these places?

Have you seen Central London recently? Have you been in your local shopping centre?
Things are far, far worse than before.

Daisymae

I wonder how many people working from home are actually doing their contracted hours? I personally know people who are and I also know people who are definitely not, whacking out a few emails while they are out and about. Overall I suspect that there will be an drop in productivity but if companies start to fold then it's a lose lose situation. I also think that it's possibility more prevalent in the public sector who lets face it are providing public services, but don't tell my local council that.

Apparently it's a mixed picture with about a third of people being more productive and a third less productive. Part of that could be because the business itself hasn't adapted to managing staff working remotely and holding them accountable.

Businesses will come to their own decisions about what works best for them. I don't think threatening people with redundancy (as the Telegraph headline from a few days ago did) is relevant.

Does that count on both sides maw b because what I can see is mostly people telling cliched anecdotes about home workers jogging and skiving. I do wonder too if it is the age range on the board, most of the young people I know are used to some element of home working. It is important to think of the nuances on both sides, the benefits on mental health, the impact on the environment, the impact on those who have caring responsibilities, the impact for women in the workplace.

Boarded up shops were a feature of many high streets before the pandemic and need long-term strategic thinking, not threatening people with job losses for not returning to office working. Wasn't it an election promise to "level up" and breathe life back into some if these places?

conform

Maybe if you are the sort who enjoys a desk type job, you are happy to do it anywhere ... on the 15th Floor of One Canada Square or in the garden shed. I can see it would work in either place.
What is a bit of a concern is when the worker in the garden shed needs their skills updating or training on a new system. Offices will still need to exist to meet these requirements and to interview and train new staff. Otherwise won't the world of home office workers will consist of a load of behind the times keyboard users?The issue will be how to keep those working from home enthusiastic and dynamic.
Moreover, when you are physically isolated, it becomes very easy to get set in one's own ways which don't always confirm to a common ethos.

I wonder how many people working from home are actually doing their contracted hours? I personally know people who are and I also know people who are definitely not, whacking out a few emails while they are out and about. Overall I suspect that there will be an drop in productivity but if companies start to fold then it's a lose lose situation. I also think that it's possibility more prevalent in the public sector who lets face it are providing public services, but don't tell my local council that.

I’m a cross between amused and baffled at the anecdotes going back and forth on this thread. It seems obvious that some roles can be carried out from home, some can’t and others could with a bit of imagination and flexibility
Such a good point Doodledog but I am afraid typical of many discussions on GN.
Personal anecdotes do little towards a genuine conversation about why the working population are being encouraged to return to the workplace and the ramifications of WFH.
The end of furlough was a similar turning point as however obvious it was to some that the long lasting effects on the economy would be catastrophic, again the “excuses” for not returning to work were trotted out.
I suspect for some older people, it can be hard to see the bigger picture particularly those who may have been shielding. We own our houses, mostly, we have pensions, of a sort and we are not at risk of redundancy or bankruptcy because of the aftermath of the Covid crisis. We may not even have seen the boarded up shops and sandwich bars or dry cleaners on the High Street.
But what about our AC? What about our grandchildren growing up? The discussion has to be taken beyond the boundaries of what Bob down the road does or the cliched view of office workers sitting around clutching their Starbucks disposable cup.

gillybob

Barclays = call centre in India . Barclaycard = call centre in India

Our Local authority = no answer at all and not even an email reply to several emails . All working their socks off at home.

gillybob I expect that the local authority has employees who are well aware of what the OP describes as the "benefits" of working from home.

In that case you have to allow for the fact that when you ring that home worker they may have gone to take the dog for a walk, or a jog and then a shower, a shopping trip to the local mall or even decided that they will work from 7pm to 10pm in the evening and obviously you should be well aware of that.

Without doubt it is us who are at fault for not being fully abreast of all these modern methods of working. ???

Definitely not business as usual in Barclays. I left my 10 year old grandson on hold to them on Thursday and it was 90 before anyone picked up. Shock horror it was in the U.K. too.

Trying to speak to Barclaycard is like banging your head against a wall.

Our LA is as diabolical as it always was but 10 times worse with everyone “working” from home . About 20 minutes before someone picks up but they can’t put you through to anyone because there’s no one there. I tried several times last week to speak to someone in licensing and although the department were supposed to be working from home they did not pick up and I got the usual Covid message . I was eventually put back to reception and was told it might be easier to send emails . Still waiting for those to be acknowledged too.

A similar story with the finance department, the reception picks up your call but can’t put you through to anyone .

A completely different story with my business insurance brokers (a local company) who are all back working as normal and providing their usual excellent service .

It’s fine for those who don’t need to use these services on a regular basis but unfortunately some of us do.

gillybob

Barclays = call centre in India . Barclaycard = call centre in India

Our Local authority = no answer at all and not even an email reply to several emails . All working their socks off at home.

Our local Barclays, only 3 staff at the most, sometimes 2, this in normal times.

I know for a fact that the ‘manager’, or whatever she is now called, has been seconded onto call centre duties for some of the lockdown, particularly when they were working reduced hours. I think at one stage the call centres in India were closed due to Covid, and many UK staff answered mortgage and other queries.
Some worked from home, some preferred to go in to the office.

I assume it’s more business as usual now.