Get back to the office! But why?

Gwyneth

Oops minty
You have made a very good point. Working from home has it’s positives but could actually backfire. Once office space is no longer available due to lack of use, what’s stopping employers using the cheapest labour anywhere in the world.
I think office workers should be returning to work if only part time. We should be thinking about the economy as a whole and other people who will most definitely lose their jobs if office workers continue to stay home permanently.

Do you mean the economy as a whole or the population as a whole? I'm afraid I don't think this government has ever given a flying fig about those in insecure employment or on low pay.

Gwyneth

Oops minty
You have made a very good point. Working from home has it’s positives but could actually backfire. Once office space is no longer available due to lack of use, what’s stopping employers using the cheapest labour anywhere in the world.
I think office workers should be returning to work if only part time. We should be thinking about the economy as a whole and other people who will most definitely lose their jobs if office workers continue to stay home permanently.

Because the cheapest labour in the world isn't necessarily up to the job.

How about re-introducing local bus services and "slow" trains? I've actually used trains more since I gave up working full-time. I used to drive to and from work every day, but now I have time to use my over-60s Railcard to make long-distance journeys and visit places for days out.

Change will happen and it needs managing. Some people will take advantage of change.

I love cheese's comment along the lines of 'people pretending' speaks to how I understand what is happening.

Otherwise known as the psychology of denial.

And, I have to admit, some hours of the day I find myself doing it too, i.e. acting as if Covid doesn't exist (not doing anything stupid but just wanted to forget for a while that it does)

On the whole I think it is probably too much for the human brain to cope with.

And so I end up just living day to day, doing the things I usually do, making lists, doing the cleaning and preparing for the worst...

Am I depressed? Yes, probably. At the moment four days before schools go back here, I'm emotionally exhausted having been home schooling a teenager since March.

I hope it goes well, but I've got a plan b in case we need to home school again.

MawB2 exactly ??

Oops minty
You have made a very good point. Working from home has it’s positives but could actually backfire. Once office space is no longer available due to lack of use, what’s stopping employers using the cheapest labour anywhere in the world.
I think office workers should be returning to work if only part time. We should be thinking about the economy as a whole and other people who will most definitely lose their jobs if office workers continue to stay home permanently.

Galaxy

How on earth does people who can work from home working from home affect the drivers nurses etc, I am a key worker it is better for me if people who can work from home. Why on earth would I care whether Bob down the street works from his home or gets on a train.

I don’t know about nurses, but if the commuting population along with Bob down the road works from home instead of getting the train, there soon won’t be a train. Then there won’t be any trains. Then there won’t be any train drivers or station staff, because there won’t be any stations.
Then everybody will moan about the volume of traffic on the roads , apart from those who don’t have a car - perhaps they can no longer afford one as train driver dad or mum was made redundant from their job with the railways.
This thread has gone round in circles, sensible and valid comments about the complex interdependent nature of the economy or the practical implications of housing/ broadband/ computer access/MH and isolation are simply ignored in favour of the “Well I think everybody should work from home” type of comment.

Well if so many people are working from home there is even less reason to build the horrendously expensive HS2 which is desecrating our countryside. What a white elephant!

Oopsminty

What is concerning is that many of these jobs that can be done from home could be done from abroad. Cheaper staff. We've seen it with call centres. Is this why British employers are reluctant to re-open offices? It isn't just coffee shops that will suffer either.

Found an article from early August which shows just how behind Europe we are.

Only 34% of UK employees have gone back to the office, lagging behind the rest of Europe which averages 68%, AlphaWise, the research arm of US bank Morgan Stanley, has found.

*In particular, Germany, Italy and Spain have seen return rates of around three-quarters, while France leads the way on 83%.*

I’m not sure you can blame the companies fully. You just have to glance at mumsnet to see how many are complaining about work asking them back.

Dish = Diss tsk !!

This should be about stopping the spread of this awful virus. If people can work from home let them. My daughter, niece and her partner all work from home and all work longer hours because they are by the phone when they would have been commuting. Who wants to be squashed onto a train or bus for up to two hours a day, when you can be at home safe.
This government has an agenda with everything and it isn’t our welfare.

Scrumptious

I am truly shocked at the negative reactions to this question and yet again let's 'dish the government' there is another way of looking at this situation I am retired now but did enjoy the luxury of the odd day working from home but any more than that I missed the interaction/ structure & connection of being with & seeing my colleagues even if it was a very quick 'hi how are you' I think even before Covid-19 we were becoming a very isolated society always in such a hurry to get home & close the door I used to ask myself why?
I did find too many distractions & structure went out the window within the home working environment meant actually working longer hours simply because too easy have stopped for extra cups of tea, pick the children up, online shopping etc etc

I guess people are different. I have always been better at working at home than I ever was in an open-plan office with colleagues around me. I was the same at university. I couldn't work effectively in a library, but I could just get my head down and get the job done when I was at home .

I doubt very much if the government gives two hoots for the people who actually work in the sandwich bars, etc. I suspect they care more about the commercial property owners and the shareholders of Costa, etc.

A problem highlighted on this thread is no work or office space at home. How many of us had en-suite bathroom facilities even a few years ago? How many had wet rooms, walk in robes or utility rooms? Now all pretty standard in new homes or renovated older homes. We can and will adapt. Open minds and willingness.

I am truly shocked at the negative reactions to this question and yet again let's 'dish the government' there is another way of looking at this situation I am retired now but did enjoy the luxury of the odd day working from home but any more than that I missed the interaction/ structure & connection of being with & seeing my colleagues even if it was a very quick 'hi how are you' I think even before Covid-19 we were becoming a very isolated society always in such a hurry to get home & close the door I used to ask myself why?
I did find too many distractions & structure went out the window within the home working environment meant actually working longer hours simply because too easy have stopped for extra cups of tea, pick the children up, online shopping etc etc

Apart from the fact that I have not been at work for a long time due to illness, my Company have allowed their staff to work at home where they were once so against it. They have discovered that staff are more proactive and are happy with the home working and home life balance. Their large office is not in full use and at times was almost empty and as our department hot desked none of us are happy to go back into an office environment. I am due to return to work soon and will be working at home. I am lucky enough to have room for a desk in the spare room but if I did not have the room I would still choose to work from home and keep safe.
I do feel for the companies that rely on the passing commuters who pick up their coffees and sandwiches and such like. Many of our staff started taking their own packed lunches and snacks as 'lunch' shopping started to get expensive. BJ and his cronies need to think further ahead that the current'get back into office'. The virus is still out there and the impact on the country should we go back into lockdown will have far more consequences than some sandwich chains having to make changes, harsh as it is.

1984 George Orwell comes to mind; a prophet?

Moving on, there are several references from people about the much higher statistics relating to people returning to the offices in other European countries. Few if any of these highlight the fact that increases in Covid cases in those countries have also increased.........

How on earth does people who can work from home working from home affect the drivers nurses etc, I am a key worker it is better for me if people who can work from home. Why on earth would I care whether Bob down the street works from his home or gets on a train.

During lockdown my Mother passed away in a nursing home. Dealing remotely with doctors and funeral directors was bad enough, but the worst was dealing with her banks and savings companies. I could sit for over an hour to have my telephone calls answered, and then most of the people who picked up the phone were blatantly uninterested or unsympathetic. Many couldn't get through to view my Mother's accounts as obviously the secure links which would be available in the office, weren't available in their homes. The letters sent were just cut and pasted - in one case the customer service was so poor that I complained and got compensation and a proper apology.
I've read all the posts and there seems to be a general attitude of "I'm alright Jack" with some people - great that people are saving hundreds of pounds a month in travel. I know a taxi driver whose desperate for customers, office cleaners with no work, cafes, shops, dry cleaners who have had to lay off staff, self employed art teachers with no income for six months and hairdressers etc.
I despair. And the number of people who are happy to go out for Rishi's cheap meal deals but wont sit on a bus or train to go to work. Thank heavens for all the folk who have kept us going - supermarket staff including those behind the scenes ensuring the shelves are filled, delivery drivers, postal staff, gas, electricity and telecom employees as well as the NHS - there are many more of course. Rant over.

If jobs could be outsourced overseas, that's what will happen. Employers might think twice if they think they could keep the jobs in the UK more cheaply by having employees work at home.

Some call centre jobs have actually been repatriated because it wasn't a huge success.

Jobs can only go overseas if there are the personnel to do them. It's not only call centre jobs which can be done at home. In many cases, the kind of skills needed aren't available overseas. For example, I know of a number of lawyers who are now home-based with visits to the "office" or another meeting place when customer contact is needed. Those people need knowledge of the British (including Scottish) legal system, which is probably not available overseas. The same is true of insurance or other financial services, which can be highly specialised and specific to the UK.

If you can work from home then why not. Pressure is being put on the Government by their 'sponsers' who donate large amounts of money to support them. Without the rents coming in from commercial properties many of the donors are going to find they can't afford to continue doing this, especially the Chinese and Russian and Saudi funders behind most of the commercial developments in the UK. There will be no need for the HS2 or mega motorways if people continue to work from home either, again huge investments have been made by the multi millionaires and overseas investors all looking for way to keep making money from the commuting workers here. Empty commercial properties could be reclaimed for housing, this would keep the building trades employed, help the companies associated with building as bricks, metalwork, paint, wiring, glass will all be needed to renovate such buildings. There would be no need for anyone to be homeless. A lot of these businesses who are pressuring the Government to order people back to work avoid paying UK taxes as much as possible, in some cases entirely successfully, unlike the little local cafe or sandwich shop who have no choice in the matter. These little local businesses are the ones we need to support. Better quality of life for families and everyone who no longers needs to commute for hours.

So the argument seems to be just because some workers can’t work from home no one should - this seems to be an inappropriate “one size fits all“ policy. However, the nature of workplaces differ. Not everyone works in an office or can wfh, but we are discussing those that do. Surely flexibility is the way forward. Maybe the single young twenty somethings who spend money in bars and gyms would prefer being in an office environment, whereas some older employees who have family responsibilities, space at home or who have a long commute would prefer to wfh at least past of the week. My youngest son and his wife certainly have been working longer hours at home, because they have saved 2 hours per day of unpleasant commuting. Many of the jobs could not be outsourced to India or the Philippines, unlike call centre jobs ( many of those not a success) . As to the unfortunate employees of Pret and the like, certainly in London, almost all seem to be young Eastern European student types, and I wonder how many employees of such establishments would be looking to stay there as a long term career.

Chewbacca

^Who are the people who work in most of London's coffee bars?^

There is a world outside of London you know! Smaller, regional towns that have a mix of offices, light industry and retail and it's these smaller towns that employ people from all demographics and they will be just as badly affected as inner cities. The retaile industry was already struggling before COVID and with so many office workers no longer travelling into the town centres, they'll be hit again.

There wouldn't be the same need in small towns as you've described for people to work from home. There will be many people who will continue to go out to work.

I suspect it's mainly the people who have to commute to any large city that would prefer to work from home. I remember sitting in a train on the way home to Suffolk from London with a book and a g & t and thinking I should be at Ipswich station soon. I looked out of the window to see hundreds of car lights and realised that we were stationery over the M25.

The rail network has had difficulties coping with the volume of traffic. On the London to Norwich line, most of the way there's only one line going in each direction. Many's the time when the Inter City that I used was held up because of stopping trains ahead of it.

gillybob

Furret

Just to be clear gilly are you saying that those who can and those who want to and those whose employers are happy with working from home should not be encourage to?

Or do you think that because some people have no option but to go into their work place then everyone else should,

Most of my family, teachers, doctors, a social worker and a bus driver have no option. But my son can and does work from home and has done for years. None of the rest of the family begrudge him this privilege.

Just to be clear * Furret* . I don’t really care what some employers choose to do . Not my problem but to be even clearer , those working from home ( or having showers, walking their dogs or whatever ) shouldn’t be too surprised when their job is outsourced to India .

If a job can be outsourced for less money, it doesn’t matter where it is being done. The company won’t distinguish between home/office work.

People are units of cost and that is all that matters at the end of the year.

I have split my working week between office and home. It works well and as others have said, it does not have to be either/or. Accommodation for staff is a big cost to the NHS organisation I work for and not having all staff into the workplace can only help.