Get back to the office! But why?

Also M & S are doing that because they are facing serious problems, they are shutting stores as well, and deferring any pay rises, it's not just management who will lose their jobs.

If that does prove to be the extensive case that can only be a good thing for a more productive communicative and equal Britain.

How about all the people who are going to lose their jobs, *Grandad? It looks to me as though the jobs market is actually about to shrink quite radically. While I have no desire to see redundant jobs being perpetuated just for the sake of it I do wonder if these jobs will ever be replaced by jobs in different sectors.

How would you feel about your 'productive communicative and equal Britain' actually being a very high unemployment Britain (which would eliminate 'equal' for a start...)?

I have to stress that I am not unsympathetic to your assertion that 'leaner management' could be carried out nearer to shop floor level.

I think that employers who cling to the idea that people have to be where they can be supervised may well find that they struggle to get staff, as anyone with a choice may prefer to work for a more enlightened company.

Clearly people in sectors such as manufacturing will have to go in, but with adaptations most people will be able to work from home for at least part of the week.

There will be a reshuffle, and possibly a re-ordering of occupations, just as the design of houses may adapt to new ways of working, so that instead of working as I did, on the sofa with a laptop, both partners/spouses will have their own designated workspace, even if it is an alcove somewhere.

We have been through several seismic shifts in lifestyle before (enclosures forcing people to become 'workers', the Industrial Revolution, mechanisation of factories etc) and things settled down afterwards. There will have been winners and losers amongst those caught up in the maelstrom; but the difference this time is that this is global. Previously, it was groups of people - miners, mill workers, peasant farmers - who were directly involved, but now it is everyone, so if we pull together we could all benefit. Again, though, that would take vision, and a government with the will to do it.

Whitewavemark2vin regard to your post @20:24 today many of the most highly skilled persons in Britains workforce are physically working in their workplace and have been throughout this crisis. To take just one industry that I have been involved with for many years, transport and Distribution you have vehicle technicians, distribution centre systems control operators, lgv drivers, logistics control operators, supervisors, forklift drivers along with many more.

Thankfully the Covid crisis has demonstrated to all who really keeps Britain going on an everyday bases. Also thankfully, the crisis has also demonstrated who the country and companies have found that can be done without for protracted periods of time while control of operations has been passed to persons much closer to the shop floor.

By example to the above, M&S announced that the very large number of redundancies they declared this week will very largely be made from within their head office staff who are largely working from home at present. Other companies have announced similar in past weeks which I feel comprehensively demonstrates that companies feel that leaner management carried out among the skilled employees at shop floor level is indeed the future.

If that does prove to be the extensive case that can only be a good thing for a more productive communicative and equal Britain.

Maybe there will be a shift from city centres to local areas. People will still be spending - just on different things. Services will adapt to change just as they always have. There has always been a divide between office based workers and those who who are in services such as hospitals, delivery or construction industries etc where most workers have to be physically present. If workers are just as productive at home then there is no reason to force them back into an overcrowded office. It’s not for everyone, so maybe we are just entering a more flexible era.

Grandad have you seen the guardian article calling on the unions to oppose the call to return to the office.

Love this

Johnson’s new mantra

Leave home

Forget the NHS

Save Pret

It's a much more healthy way of living.

Yes we used a fruit supplier and the milkman and have continued with them, I have a lot more disposable income due to less commuting and less Starbucks, costa, that money goes to local tradesmen, local restaurants etc.

PECS

We have to find some benefits from the enforced slow down. There are winners & losers in all situations. Pret and other similar companies enjoyed huge growth and good profits from the travelling public. Now I see our local butcher , fish shop & green grocer enjoying an increase in custom as people's lives kept them local, less dependent on late shopping at supermarkets ... Many people have made good use of their commute time and found home working beneficial. I know that won't apply to all but even big companies are spotting advantages.

Some of our local retailers and restaurants did very well out of lockdown because they offered a home delivery service and raised their profile. Apparently, many people are sticking with them.

Grandad1943

I believe that we are in danger of creating even wider divisions in society when it comes to the world of work.

Britain will have those who have to physically attend their workplace to carry out their duties. Then we may well have those who are able to work from home who, as is now beginning to happen, will appear to those physically in the workplace as being evasive and elusive and out of touch and reach.

Ever wider divisions is not a good prospect for Britain and therefore the utopia that some feel will come about. Thankfully those working from home will rapidly decline with the schools now fully reopening. That will allow employers to request many more to return to their workplaces over the coming weeks.

Some, if not many, of those that are not requested to return may find eventually they are the ones not required at all in the fullness of time.

I don’t think that is quite right, employers aren’t requesting their staff to go back to the office. Or at least I suppose the more skilled workforce. They are more than happy for them to continue to work at home.

It seems those whose presence in an office is necessary and those employers who lack trust in their employees are keen to
to see them back, but that is all.

I think we are talking about two different workforces.

Galaxy

Yes I think that's spot on whitewave. The pandemic has in most ways favoured the middle class, there are exceptions such as doctors, etc.

If Matt Hancock gets his way, even doctors will be working at home. The idea is to move most GP consultations online, so that if you ring up for an appointment, you could well get a GP in another part of the country. It's already possible to do surgery remotely.

I would absolutely jump at the chance to work from home, were it possible.

I believe that we are in danger of creating even wider divisions in society when it comes to the world of work.

Britain will have those who have to physically attend their workplace to carry out their duties. Then we may well have those who are able to work from home who, as is now beginning to happen, will appear to those physically in the workplace as being evasive and elusive and out of touch and reach.

Ever wider divisions is not a good prospect for Britain and therefore the utopia that some feel will come about. Thankfully those working from home will rapidly decline with the schools now fully reopening. That will allow employers to request many more to return to their workplaces over the coming weeks.

Some, if not many, of those that are not requested to return may find eventually they are the ones not required at all in the fullness of time.

We have to find some benefits from the enforced slow down. There are winners & losers in all situations. Pret and other similar companies enjoyed huge growth and good profits from the travelling public. Now I see our local butcher , fish shop & green grocer enjoying an increase in custom as people's lives kept them local, less dependent on late shopping at supermarkets ... Many people have made good use of their commute time and found home working beneficial. I know that won't apply to all but even big companies are spotting advantages.

Yes I think that's spot on whitewave. The pandemic has in most ways favoured the middle class, there are exceptions such as doctors, etc.

I was fortunate to be able to work from home between 2000 and 2006 when I retired. I would meet up with colleagues a couple of times a week for an hour or so, but not always in the ‘office’. Sometimes it was a working lunch or perhaps just a meet up in a local coffee shop. Or they were always at the end of a phone.

I found it very productive and not isolating. Certainly didn’t miss the 45 minutes commute through traffic in the morning or anther 45 minutes drive in the evening.

This extra 90 minutes I didn’t have to spend driving meant I also got to know my neighbours better as I could take the dog for a walk and have time for a chat.

Of course it’s not for everyone but for those who can it is a better work/life balance. I was certainly more energised and productive.

It seems very likely that this may work out to be a division once again between the skilled professional who can work and largely prefer to work from home and the unskilled office staff who can’t nor have the choice.

I am really glad for them grandad , by comparison all in my profession have felt the benefits from some home working, my client based stuff cant be done remotely but office stuff can, Dh s whole company have found home working much more productive, both for employer and employee.

Galaxy

I wasnt talking about call centre workers. I was talking about companies in general in reference to the view that workers weren't as productive at home.

That depends on the person working from home self discipline. We had eight staff working from home at the start of lockdown in our main North Somerset office. They have all returned to working in that office now and state they are glad to be there. To many distractions in our type of working and it is difficult to get things done as they should be carried out especially in regard to collaboration and interaction with others which we all rely so much on.

Brilliant discussion, so many good ideas. Change is certainly coming, hopefully for the better. Lots more choice for those who can work from home and want to, taking transport pollution off the streets, being at home when the children get back from school, finishing earlier because the long commute at each end of the day has disappeared therefore more family time. This latter will help mental health issues and street crime for the better.
Of course some office based jobs are there to support other workers such as those Grandad has demonstrated. Cleaners who support offices will get jobs in the homes of home workers. Cafes and restaurants in smaller towns will benefit, I won't go on and on but suffice to say there will be winners and losers but I think a better work life balance is long overdue.
Office hubs in towns sounds like a good idea to bring back small shops and life.
Sharing ideas and experience has made this an interesting thread.

varian

Actually, Grandad quite a lot has changed since 1966

I am very aware of that fact varian. I was indeed pointing out how the world of work has change since the 1960s being there were more jobs on offer than there were people to fill them at that time in Bristol.

Today that world of work is far safer but relationships with employers at manual working shop floor level is far far worse.

I wasnt talking about call centre workers. I was talking about companies in general in reference to the view that workers weren't as productive at home.

Ellanvannin I don't think anyone was deliberatley not answering your post it is just that this is a really lively thread with lots of ideas flying about, so difficult to reply to each.
I do take your point though that an economy that relies on sandwiches and coffeee is not ultimately sustainable or desirable.

I think this has been, so far at least, a smashing thread. Lots of differing thoughts and opinions, but not noticed any sniping.

I hope you don't mean me Suzie