Get back to the office! But why?

Grandad1943

Galaxy

I believe there are many managers looking at the expenditure on city centre offices and considering whether that expenditure is worthwhile. I believe that there are those posting on this thread who should be aware of this consideration.
You see we can all play that game.

Galaxy????????

I don't see what you're having a problem with there, Grandad.

It's not just employees not rushing back to their offices; it's employers who have found that their staff are as productive, or more productive, working from home and who are happy to continue with it where it is feasible to do so.

For those bewailing the fate of the sandwich makers I'll just remind them about whole industries being chopped in the 70s and 80s, steel, coal, shipbuilding for example, without much wailing and gnashing of teeth about the displaced workers...

Anyway, it's more about the property companies losing rental income than concern for the sandwich makers...

AGAA4

Some office staff may need to be at their place of work but many don't. The job gets done just as efficiently if not more so by working from home. Things have to change. If the Luddites had had their way we would still be working without machinery as they were afraid of change.

Many office staff need to be at their places of work. Others seem very keen to demonstrate to their employers that they do not need to physically be there.

In that that they demonstrate their job role can be carried out just as well from a house in New Deli as it can from a house in Barking. In other instances, they demonstrate their work can be shared between others actually working "much nearer the coal face".

With Britain now facing the perfect storm of the ongoing Covid crisis and the now serious prospect of a no-deal exit from the European Union, employers will be looking to drastically cleave costs and if sharing a single job role between several others or exporting that job role overseas then those will be the options that will be taken up.

Rather than trying to convince their employers that they are not required to be in the office, I believe that many would do better to try to convince their employers they and their job role are absolutely essential in the office.

Some office staff may need to be at their place of work but many don't. The job gets done just as efficiently if not more so by working from home. Things have to change. If the Luddites had had their way we would still be working without machinery as they were afraid of change.

Galaxy

I believe there are many managers looking at the expenditure on city centre offices and considering whether that expenditure is worthwhile. I believe that there are those posting on this thread who should be aware of this consideration.
You see we can all play that game.

Galaxy????????

I wonder how much time office workers will need to spend on sanitising their environment? A friend working temporarily as a guide welcoming people to a hospital (giving out masks, advice on wearing them safely etc) says so much time is spent on cleaning touch points such as lift buttons, doors, lavatories and so on.

My dd estimated that for her return to the office, she would have to touch five doors and use hand rails (as advised by H&S) to reach her 2nd floor office. The desk & chair would need to be wiped and then tech equipment needs to be plugged in, too so also requires cleaning.

There’s no canteen, just one hot water urn and two fridges with shared milk which will all be touched by multiple people. There are also the bathrooms to be considered.

It will either mean having a constantly rotating set of cleaners (job creation!) or requiring staff to carry sanitising equipment with them and cleaning multiple times a day, cutting into productive work time.

I believe there are many managers looking at the expenditure on city centre offices and considering whether that expenditure is worthwhile. I believe that there are those posting on this thread who should be aware of this consideration.
You see we can all play that game.

The Covid crisis and lockdown has demonstrated conclusively who is essential in the world of work and who that world can manage without.

In the distribution centre I sited in my above post and in very many similar centres those essential manual workers on the loading dock and throughout the centre often see the office staff in the course of their work. In booking holidays, training sessions, pay queries and many other matters those manual workers often visit the attached offices to see the appropriate office based worker to resolve or clarify such matters.

Office staff very often come into the various operating sectors within the centres to speak to team leaders and supervisors directly and in that are visible to all. However, when those office staffs are no longer on site and the support they provide is no longer available but at the end of a phone or email then it can be seen why those essential manual workers stated they felt completely abandoned by their bosses and those office staff who should be on site in support of their work.

I believe that senior management in many essential industries have become aware of that reality and I believe that there are those posting in this thread that should also become aware of that circumstance.

Why are so many of you opposed to working from home? Is it because the govt says that office workers must return to work?

No one is saying that all office workers must go back to their offices. There are many good reasons on here why people can continue to work from home and the anti's come up with statements like police and and nurses can't work from home. What's that got to do with anything? If they had wanted to work in an office they wouldn't have chosen those jobs. People that do those jobs tend to live reasonably close to their place of employment. I doubt that there's many health workers or police living in Hampshire, or Dorset or Norfolk who work in London.

There is more awareness now of mental health issues and it would be interesting to know whether people who suffer have found their health slightly improved because the stresses and strains of commuting have been eased during lockdown.

In the old, British Rail days, if you couldn't find a seat in second class you were entitled to go into the first class compartments. I don't think that rule applies anymore. I'd like to see how those complaining would cope with regular commuting.

Having worked in an office I know how distracting it can be. People chatting, coming in and out, phones ringing. Talking to people wfh they say that they can get on much better at home without all those distractions and many spend their previous commute time working.

Working from home IS NOT INEFFICIENT IN MOST CASES.

That example is someone failing to do their job, which can happen in an office, and does on numerous occasions. We can all give personal anecdotes to back up a theory. I am part of two teams one has returned to the office one hasnt, the team still home based is much more efficient than the one in the office, and collaborates much better as a team. This anecdote doesnt prove that people in offices arent doing their job.

Serious mistakes can be made by people working in an office too. One example is not enough to demonstrate that all office staff should return to work.
I am not sure if businesses such as distribution etc may need some of their office staff on site but organisations such as the CS are unlikely to need staff in the office. They can return if they want to but there is no pressure to do so and here in Wales people are still told to work from home.

suziewoozie

‘If shop workers, carers, NHS staff, Teachers, Police, Fire Services, Road sweepers. Rubbish collectors and many other employment sectors have to be in-situ to do their job is it unreasonable to expect office workers not to?‘

Just to remind posters what GG actually posted. The rationale for going back to the office is because others have to be in-situ

In many cases working from home is far less efficient than working from an office. I have already placed in this thread an instance of someone working at home failing to pass on an important message to a large food distribution loading dock supervisor due to the fact that the home worker was distracted by the families children at the time he should have been attending to the important matter at hand.

The above failure later in the evening brought about a serious safety incident which our company was requested to independently investigate. When our assignment team investigated the matter all the loading dock workers stated they felt completely abandoned by "their Bosses" and all who would normally work in support of their operation from the site offices.

Our report on the incident to the company contained that teams comments which obviously resonated with senior management in the company as the regional director visited the site very shortly after our report was submitted and I am informed she thanked all the manual workers on the loading dock for all their efforts in working throughout the crisis. She also advised them that the company would ensure that far greater support would be readily on hand in the future.

Following the visit, all office staff that work in collaboration or support of those in the distribution centre were informed that they were to return to their offices just as soon as safe Covid working procedures could be introduced within the site offices. I believe that has now been completed and all office staff are now back working on site.

However, I believe the above demonstrates the psychological impact of office workers not being on site can have on essential manual workers while they are carrying out their job roles.

I would also believe that should anyone tell those workers that office staff do not want to return because they are saving large sums of money on commuting costs may well find themselves with a riot on their hands.

When I was working about 14 years ago now, I occasionally had to commute to London from the south coast.

It was an utter nightmare with time being a big issue. Having to get up at 5.30am to get a train to arrive at the various banks/offices in reasonable time. Then reversing the travel in the late afternoon/evening not getting home until between 6 or 7.

Trains were often late or cancelled. Seats were usually taken which sometimes meant standing all the way to and from Victoria.

People were doing this day in and day out before wfh. It was only a half life. Now mental and physical health must be benefiting enormously. No one should have to live that sort of working life and if it can be avoided it is a very civilising decision.

Trains and conditions have got so much worse since what a way to treat people.

Do you know what a rhetorical question is GG ? ( that was an example btw ?)Whether you’re wearing your wellies or not, you are in a hole and should stop digging. No one is saying never go in again - it all depends - there will certainly be no set formula. It doesn’t work like that

Many people can't accept change and this pandemic has brought changes that were already happening to a head. There are many jobs in the UK and beyond that can be done at home because of technology and employers are seeing the benefits to themselves of staff WFH. I don't understand why people want things to go back to how they were when they weren't that good. Commuting has been a nightmare for people for a long time now.
Taking all those people who can do their jobs effectively from home off the roads, out of the trains and buses would help people who have to commute have an easier journey.

Dear god.

suziewoozie

It’s like banging your head on a brick wall isn’t it? I’ll try once more - if the work can be done at home (with the obvious proviso of going in as and when necessary) and employer and employee are happy with this, why should anyone believe it shouldn’t be acceptable - or do some posters hate their fellow human beings so much they want them unnecessarily to spent thousands of pounds on commuting and hours and hours of time?

Absolutely agree.

Also why put yourself needlessly in harms way?

It is nonsensical.

Galaxy if it is worse for employer and employees obviously you would not return to the office.

(I spend time in wellies at work by the way, especially if I have to visit a building site)

If it is worse for employee and employer why on earth would you. It's like saying what's the harm in doing your job wearing wellies.

unreasonable to expect office workers not to

I was asking a question, not demanding that every office worker be back at their desk at 9am Monday morning regardless.

What is wrong with going into your place of work a couple of times a week (or more so if it’s necessary for business reasons) if it is COVID-19 compliant and you are not clinically vulnerable?

‘If shop workers, carers, NHS staff, Teachers, Police, Fire Services, Road sweepers. Rubbish collectors and many other employment sectors have to be in-situ to do their job is it unreasonable to expect office workers not to?‘

Just to remind posters what GG actually posted. The rationale for going back to the office is because others have to be in-situ

GG I see you’ve gone all Humpty Dumpty on us

But fir what purpose. If their employers have found no decrease in productivity. What is the point?

sodapop

I understand what Grannygravy is saying about other workers, office workers do seem to be making a meal of it in comparison. I'm sure there must be some middle way where there is some working from home and some office work.

Yes that is what I gave repeatedly posted sodapop

Many Office workers have been fortunate enough to be able to work from home throughout the height of the pandemic. Easing back into offices a couple of days a week where they are Covid compliant is neither a totalitarian or authoritarian view.