Cultural appropriation

So if my black friend puts my hair into cornrows because she likes me with them, is that OK? Of course someone else may not like me wearing them, how do I know which is right?

There are so many things we all do which someone would object to, I am not going to stop eating meat because a vegan doesn't like it. I don't really think our lives should be determined by what someone we don't know thinks. Surely if we know that what we are doing is kind and not offensive that should be enough?

Chewbacca Wed 02-Sep-20 21:51:14 when we went to a Sikh wedding we didn't go quite that far but did ask what was appropriate - DH covering his head etc. We also learned that we mustn't have the soles of our feet forward as that was insulting. As the only white people there we were treated with great consideration and I don't think anyone thought about whether we were doing things right or not.

When I used to have to go to the Iranian consulate and Bank Meli I always covered my head, arms and legs and never objected to men taking my place in the queue because I wanted to fit into their culture, I didn't appropriate it.

I didn't know cornrows were originally about slaves so how could I be accused of CA? I believe that we should learn about history and use it to change the future. There is, imo, too much of this whinging and not enough looking at ways for society to be fairer for all.

SueDonim Wed 02-Sep-20 17:22:41, I see where you are coming from but do you think that wearing those hair styles now is a statement or a fashion? I think the latter.

I also don't think people are "taking other people’s culture" I think they are copying it and that is a compliment. It could be taken further to suggest that a black person straightening their hair is copying the hair of the oppressor for whatever reason. I think it is all about the reason we do these things and suggest it is simply fashion.

Pretty good you just need to include the n sound
cuskee n dah. The pronunciation of the Welsh language is the hardest bit.

Cuskee Dah?

Can't pronounce it though

Very impressed Callistemon ?. I see you have already ‘appropriated’ our language brilliant!!!

cysgu'n dda

She could be appropriating Welsh national dress and customs!

Welsh cake anyone?

Monica

Sorry that should have read ‘pawb ‘

MOnica
‘We need to be able to discriminate between the aspects that really matter’ absolutely agree .
Not sure if the lady in National dress outside smallest house in Conwy is Welsh but assume she is a local woman so likely to be Welsh.
Callistemon you’re probably wise to give the National Dress a miss though. Stick with the leek soup and welsh cakes!!
Nos da pawn (goodnight all) Time for bed I think but have enjoyed reading your posts.

Turn her upside down and she probably says 'Made in China'

Is she real?

As in flesh and blood? Yes, she's real! But I don't know if she's actually Welsh. Which could throw up a whole new discussion.......!

I can remember, when I lived in Malaya as a child, I was taken to a rugby match Malaya v Oxford & Cambridge Combined side.

In front of me was a Malayan man, with a very cut glass voice shouting 'Up the Varsity'. To one side of us was a British rubber planter bawling his lungs out for the national side. At that time unworried by any concerns of cultural appropriation. I just thought it was funny.

No, I haven't. It's a long time since we went to Conwy (without an 'a').

Is she real?

I get far too cold.

Plenty of people have thought all kinds of things are unprofessional, women in the work place, women wearing trousers in the office, men who shaved their heads, or grew their hair too long, even eating a packed lunch at your desk has been considered unprofessional.

Look at the recent thread on U and non-U behaviour, more than one person will have been discriminated against because something on either list was beyond the pale for someone they worked for, or with or mixed with socially. Before you ask I. My score was one item only on each list, thus preserving my reputation for nonconformity.

There is a prayer that goes 'God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference.' and the thought behind this prayer applies to other things.

However we need to be able to discriminate between the aspects really matter and those that are just irrelevant diversions and the danger is at present is that discrimination between what matters and what doesn't is being lost and by making a hue and cry over the meritricious trivia that makes good headlines the real things that need to be changed and are neither amusing nor media grabbing are being lost.

Have you been to see the Welsh woman, in full national dress, who stands outside "the smallest house" on the banks of the estuary in Conwy Callistemon? She's a definite tourist attraction. I don't know if she's Welsh though.

Thank you Gwyneth

I'll give the national dress a miss, though.
And the dancing with my two left feet.

As a Welsh woman who speaks Welsh I am very happy for other people to appropriate our language, customs, food, holidays and music. You can even support our rugby team if you like, bake bara brith and have a tattoo of the Draig Coch (red dragon) if you are so inclined. One word of warning though, our Welsh National Dress, particularly the hat, does make you look a bit ‘witch like’ and is not altogether flattering!!

Plenty of people think certain stylings of black hair is unprofessional, Monica. That’s why there have been court cases over it. www.nytimes.com/2019/02/18/style/hair-discrimination-new-york-city.html

Why don’t you put your nightwear on? That should avoid any cultural appropriation problems. Or wear nothing in bed, like me.

Oh good grief, 'They are just trying to fit in' . Cultural appropriation, if such a concept exists works both ways. Personally, I have never understood why black women straightened their hair. Are their hairstyles any more unprofessional than any other hairstyle adopted by other groups? if you are already suffering all the prejudice that often applies to people of colour what difference will a hairstyle make?

Why are people so obsessed by 'fitting in' Be yourself and shame the devil. As you will imagine, pretending to be what I am not in order to 'fit in' has never featured in my life and that has always been to my profound advantage both professionally and personally.

As for 'If someone told me what I did was offensive or upsetting to them, I would apologise and stop doing it.' For me, it would depend entirely on the circumstances. Many bullies used those kind of requests to intimidate and diminish other people. I once shared a flat with someone who used this tactic constantly to get her own way, regardless of other people's needs or feelings.

Sue, does not the fact that Christians do not make an outcry about the use of the cross or try to make it believer specific, in itself a commentary on cultural appropriation?

By the way I am still not sure about putting on my pyjamas, tonight. Perhaps I should lie awake all night worrying about it. - oh dear, am I wearing them just to fit in?

We had our hands henna'd too Callistemon; lovely whilst it lasted.

No, you didn't.
My white friend was painted in the traditional Mehndi style when her son married a British woman of Indian heritage. The women gathered together to have this done.

Genuine question: a few years ago, the daughter of my Indian friends was getting married and we were invited to the wedding. There was a mixture of different cultures amongst the many guests. Many of those guests, including me, wore a sari. I chose mine from an Indian clothing shop who gave fantastic customer support about which was the most appropriate sari to wear as the guest of a wedding, and how to put it on correctly. At no time did they, or my Indian friends, indicate that I shouldn't have done it; in fact they were delighted that I'd taken the trouble to learn. But now I'm questioning myself and wondering if I did the right thing afterall. It's too late now but this thread has got me thinking....

All good posts though sue