Cultural appropriation

Many of the things that are beloved as cultural icons don't really suit foreigners.

When George the Fourth (previously the Prince Regent) visited Edinburgh in 1822, the first visit of a reigning monarch to the northern kingdom for 170 years, Walter Scott, who was organising things, issued a dress code for the event. Scott's enthusiasm for the traditions of Scotland decreed that tartan and the kilt (banned for many years as a subversive cultural icon) should be worn by all.

George wore a kilt, of course (he was very fond of dressing up) . It was far too short, and showed too much of his fat legs, so he insisted on wearing bright pink silk stockings to hide them. On the contrary, they drew attention to his inelegant shape and made him a figure of ridicule, not what he planned at all.

If cornrows are about slavery why are they so fashionable for black people? It takes hours to do it so why would they? In the Caribbean many schoolgirls wear them and look beautiful. They appear poor with darned uniforms but they can express themselves with their hair, they are not oppressed by it.

I have black family members and they think this is daft. One is particularly close, is very successful and has several times been approached by the media to talk about black issues. When they have agreed they have always said that they have never been treated differently because of the way they look. Not all black people experience racism, some do but not all.

It's ridiculous to ignore this. The Victorians knew how valuable and effective it was to suppress a country's culture. They did it everywhere they ruled. Even Ireland suffered, the Irish language was forbidden, Irish music and dancing were banned. The resurgence of cultural differences and the idea of cultural appropriation are steps on the way to recognising and restoring those cultures. It is certainly not "wokeish nonsense" although I am sure those Victorians would have agreed with you.

Definitely attention seeking and if there is a hint of monetary compensation for hurt feelings resulting in the inevitable ‘mental health’ problems well even better.

Baggs. I love your ”leagues of identitarian victimhood”.

Personally, I think it’s wokeish nonsense and only works one way as usual.

Isn’t all this cultural appropriation nonsense just another example of an increasing number of individuals seemingly delighted at finding something to be outraged at?

Even better if the faux outrage hits the news and even better if a business or high profile person is forced to offer an unnecessary, grovelling apology and promises to remove/change the ‘offending’ item.

It’s attention seeking and a great pity that it’s not just dismissed as nonsense.

It seems to me that ‘being offended’ is the trump card to play.

janeainsworth My response about British and American culture was a response to the question of a British black actor taking the role of an American slave. All cultures include things which have come from other places- we celebrate New Year now in much the same manner as the Scots, but that wasn't the same in the 1950s.
Of course Native American culture has been destroyed and demeaned by white American culture, so has the Inuit culture. It is the same process that was applied to African culture in the past. For a long time it was said that Africans had no culture that they were a primitive people, we now know differently. The process of recognising other cultures and appreciating them properly is a long one and acknowledging cultural appropriation is just one step

janeainsworth

Here it is www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/don-t-dip-your-pen-in-someone-else-s-blood-writers-and-the-other-1.3533819%3fmode=amp

That's a really good explanation, Jane. Thanks - it has cleared up some of the things I was unsure about.

That would be non-opinion’ Summerlove
?

Sorry Suedonim I’ve only just read your post referring to the Native Americans.
I agree it’s about power and oppression.

Trisher Culture isn't about where you were born- the USA and Britain share a similar culture, so roles can be interchangeable

I think the culture, and cultural influences, are very different both between different parts of the USA (most obviously north vs south) and between the USA and Britain.
People with British heritage make up quite a small percentage of the population - the largest group of White Americans is of German heritage.
The largest ancestries of American whites are: German (17%), Irish (12%), English (9%), Italian (6%), French (4%), Polish (3%), Scottish (3%), Scotch-Irish (2%), Dutch (2%), Norwegian (2%) and Swedish (1%).[11][12][13] However, the English and British Americans' demography is considered a serious under-count as the stock tend to self-report and identify as simply "Americans" (7%), due to the length of time they have inhabited the United States, particularly if their family arrived prior to the American Revolution.[14] The vast majority of white Americans also have ancestry from multiple countries.
From Wikipedia
That of course is in addition to the cultural influences of African-Americans, and Hispanics.
Maybe amongst all the talk of cultural appropriation, we should spare a thought for the Native Americans who comprise only 1% of the population.

Years ago all this fuss would have passed us by
Years ago there were notices proclaiming "No blacks, No Irish" Years ago people were referred to in derogatory terms for their racial origins, terms we no longer use. We have moved on. Acknowledging that some things are unacceptable that some aspects of culture belong to other people is simply another step forward. There will be people who can't understand this just as there are still people who use unacceptable language, but things will change.

It’s not simply about borrowing from other cultures, it’s about power and oppression. Cornrows were worn by slaves in the US but later on, if black women wore them, they were told it was unprofessional. Yet suddenly, cornrows are okay when white women have them.

Black women can emulate blond hair without offence because white women have never been subjugated and enslaved on the scale that black women have been.

I read recently that the American football team, the Washington Redskins, have finally agree to drop the latter part of their title. Native Americans have long had a grievance that the team had usurped their culture, using their sacred feather headdresses as entertainment, when the native peoples in the US were almost annihilated by white colonists and settlers. Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee is one of the most traumatising books I’ve ever read.
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/american-football/53520772

I think CA is a really silly notion. I live in a bungalow, that is an Indian word and design of property, should I demolish it? Bras were a french invention so should we not be allowed to wear one. Should the Japanese and other nations not wear western dress but only wear kimonos. Should the Inuit only wear furs. Every nation has borrowed from others in matters of clothes, food, religion and so on. We are all an homogenised mix and IMHO all the better for it.

As a family we have been holidaying in the Caribbean for thirty years DD and DS’s all had their hair in cornrows as soon as we arrived. It was a lucrative business for local ladies.
Cannot see the problem myself.

Urmstongran

Years ago all this fuss would have passed us by. Social media highlights issues and then all the world and his dog want their opinion out there. Who cares? Not me. It’s a hairstyle choice (either way). Get over it and move along.

And yet....you want your opinion out there too

Years ago all this fuss would have passed us by. Social media highlights issues and then all the world and his dog want their opinion out there. Who cares? Not me. It’s a hairstyle choice (either way). Get over it and move along.

janeainsworth I think for adults it is largely to do with your personal feelings and opinions about what you are willing to be involved in. Should you decide that you feel you are OK with a particular project you would then be able to justify your involvement, and reply to any criticism you receive. I think most white people if they thought about it would think the only role they could legitimately assume in Sharpeville for example would be the white SA police.
Culture isn't about where you were born- the USA and Britain share a similar culture, so roles can be interchangeable.
For children I think it is up to the adults around them to explain that although they may play a particular part they should recognise their own and others cultural background.
As for the African director I think this is something really to be desired as it opens up fields in which diversity has often been lacking.

TerriBull imitation is not always seen as a form of flattery. When I was young a cousin’s mum would always buy her clothes similar to mine as soon as I got them. My mum said what you did but I just found it blooming annoying.

Apparently Adele grew up in Tottenham and her friends were from Jamaican roots so she has been defended by Naomi Campbell and David Lammy because they don’t see it as an insult or a slight and it wasn’t intended that way.

I still like patchouli and sandalwood Doodledog

I find this topic interesting, but I don't really understand the nuances.

I remember the fuss over The Help, but am not sure whether that means that we should only be 'allowed' to write about our own experiences. If that is the case, then science fiction, fantasy and a lot of historical fiction will be thin on the ground, as will many other topics. On the other hand, I can understand that it can be annoying to be represented by others who really don't understand our lives.

It is not often, IMO, that men can write convincing female characters, and some of the TV representations of working class people used to be atrocious in the days when only white middle class men wrote scripts.

When it comes to fashion, however, I can't see the harm, but that could be because I spent my younger days in cheesecloth, afghan coats and smelling of patchouli and sandalwood .

I could well be missing something, and would love to hear from someone who understands better than I do, as it is clearly something that does cause offence, which I wouldn't like to do, even unintentionally.

Adele has recently been in the news for wearing her hair in a traditional African hairstyle, some accused her of cultural appropriation, although several high profile British Black people, Naomi Campbell and, David Lammy to name but two defended her and didn't see it that way at all. Surely we all appropriate bits and pieces of other nations culture through a multitude of different things, language, food, dress sense, cinema, theatre, art. Nowadays we live in a global world. Isn't imitation a form of flattery anyway? Beyonce often appears with blonde hair, shock horror she's not actually Nordic, neither are most people who appear to be blonde, as natural blondes are less than 2 per cent of the population, do they mind ??? and should we care what any individual chooses to do with their own hair

Cornrows always look like a very practical hairstyle to me.
If we see something that looks like a good idea, are we not allowed to follow suit?