Starmer's speech to the virtual LP conference

There are also people working to further the Palestinian cause as well ( Corbyn amongst them I expect) but that seems to be quite ok, doesn't it? Israel bad/ Palestinian Good....
It’s not that simple though is it?
Many within the LP membership seem to think that it is that simple though.

lemongrove it isn't anti-semitic to think there are people working to further Israel's interests in Britain. In fact there are Israelis who openly admitted working against Jeremy Corbyn.
Watch Joe Glasman
electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/we-slaughtered-jeremy-corbyn-says-israel-lobbyist
It isn't anti-semitic to think someone who has worked for Nestle may not be as principled as they pretend. I have friends who have boycotted Nestle for years.

Grany your comments about Ruth Smeeth show what a hill Starmer has to climb with the far left, and why there has been a culture of antisemitism in the last few years within the LP membership, which has been quietly accepted up to now.

I think that convention goes that if you are in Cabinet or Shadow Cabinet you don't rebel against the party line. If you want to rebel you resign.

There was a real case for opposing this bill,

I'm hazy on the protocol, trisher, but if Iam is correct, if this bill had been won without abstensions the LP wouldn't have been able to propose amendments.

As it is, there seems to be partial agreement with the powers in it which stop malicious or vexatious litigation against them for carrying out their duties, but it also covered freedom from prosecution for torture. Which the LP opposes.

I can see absolutely no reason why Starmer should require abstention if the party were totally against the bill. But it isn't...

But voting in Parliament is a way of speaking out MaizieD I mistrust anyone who insists someone has to vote against their conscience. Sadly I think Starmer has just exhibited his real values. There was a real case for opposing this bill, an opportunity for real oposition thrown away. The UN has criticised the British position. www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/uks-torture-record-rightly-criticised-united-nations

Grany

No one should be sacked for speaking out says Keir
twitter.com/Trickyjabs/status/1308916707822632961?s=20

They were sacked for not doing what they were told to do. Completely different thing.

Murky World
www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/07/22/smee-j22.html

My understanding, happy to be corrected, is that opposition would have meant the government one. It’s a delaying tactic with the aim of ensuring some measures are subject to debate.
More racism towards Ruth Smee I note.

No one should be sacked for speaking out says Keir
twitter.com/Trickyjabs/status/1308916707822632961?s=20

A great statement from Nadia Whittome- twitter.com/NadiaWhittomeMP/status/1309066157987639298/photo/2
When Amnesty International, the British Legion and The Equalities Commission oppose legislation you have to think it needs some opposition.

It must be true ?

Ruth Smeeth is a US informant according to Wikileaks

twitter.com/Obscure_Rebel/status/1308898344408944644?s=20

The people who did not like the previous leadership have got what they wanted. Jeremy Corbyn is no longer leader of the Labour Party. This thread was started to discuss the new leadership.
Is it really necessary therefore, to continue to make nasty remarks about Jeremy Corbyn, that have been made so many, many times before on previous threads.

Here's a rationale for abstaining rather than voting against the bill.

By Dan Jarvis, Labour MP for Barnsley

www.politicshome.com/thehouse/article/overseas-operations-bill-is-damaging-to-both-our-troops-and-our-international-standing

From what I can work out Labour would support the prevention of litigation against forces personnel for acts in combat, but not for cases of torture. The bill covers all acts including torture. I think they are intending to go for amendments to this effect. I would hope that should their amendments fall then they would vote against the bill.

But I'm not entirely positive about this.

And British under cover officers were responsible for some terrible actions in N.Ireland (and possibly South of the border in Ireland). No one in the Irish Troubles comes out with much honour be they IRA, British or Loyalist (which has always seemed a misnomer to me but gave them a better cover for the things they did). But what that has to do with a bill which gives British soldiers freedom from prosecution for torture and rape I don't know.

Corbyn supported the IRA

Well if Starmer's uniting the Labour Party involves supporting a bill which will effectively provide British soldiers protection from accusations of rape and torture I can see a lot of people leaving. It is a bill which has been roundly condemned by human rights activists (didn't Starmer used to claim he was one?). It shows a distinct lack of understanding about the history of Labour and links him to war monger Tony Blair in spirit, if not in fact. He needs to rethink
labourlist.org/2020/09/labour-government-bill-risks-torture-and-other-war-crimes-going-unpunished/

Who can forget that verbal attack on Ruth Smeeth and Corbyn shook hands with her abuser .

It was Ruth Smeeth MaizieD who did the intro for Starmer before his speech, and was his way of showing that anti-semitism in the LP will hopefully be a thing of the past .

Do nations employ PR companies ?

Grany

Quoted Can you imagine a Labour Party leader having someone who worked for an anti-trade union outsourcing firm, as well as a PR company for a racist apartheid nation, to introduce his keynote conference speech? Then to say that person exemplifies the values he wants Labour to stand for? ?

Can you clarify who, and what, this is about, Grany?

No he just has a long way to go. But we all knew that. I listened to someone yesterday saying that one of his key characteristics is patience and an ability to play the long game. We are not living in a fairytale a situation like this takes time to resolve but it is happening.

Still splits in the Labour Party as Labour has sacked three junior shadow ministers who joined with Jeremy Corbyn and 14 other Socialist Campaign group MPs in breaking the party’s whip by voting against the second reading of a controversial armed forces bill.

Sources close to the party’s leadership said that the three MPs were warned in advance that they could not remain in their posts as parliamentary private secretaries if they voted against the bill.

Nadia Whittome, Beth Winter and Olivia Blake defied the whip, which called on Labour MPs to abstain on the overseas operations bill. The legislation aims to introduce a presumption against prosecution for British soldiers serving abroad.

The group of rebels was led by former party leader Corbyn also included John McDonnell, Diane Abbott and Rebecca Long-Bailey.

Starmer is herding cats.

Thanks MaizieD - Starmer is right to set out his aspirations, the principles that underpin his belief systems. It’s up to the Momentum believers whether they support or continue to undermine with the aim of ensuring the Conservatives continue to ruin our country.
50,000 nurses short. Thousands of vacancies in social care. Police, social work, drug /alcohol teams, poor recruitment and retention of teachers, crisis in housing. It makes me so angry